Do we really think that is a sign of an egalitarian society?
One of the most “sex-positive” things you can do is make sure men cannot buy sex, because the buying of sex is violence against women and is a direct deterrent to women’s equality.
Women’s silence and “consent” can be bought—I remember how much mine cost—and almost 100 percent want out now. Allowing a minority of women in prostitution to argue “choice” on the backs of the majority who are out there, in perfect storm of oppression, neglect, abuse, and human trafficking, is absurd. Instead of offering them a hand to reach their full potential, we offer them up to feed the demand for paid sex whilst “choice” is argued.
Prostitution commodifies women’s bodies; this is sexual and social subordination, wherein all women are seen as a subclass of being. Tolerating prostitution affects everyone, because the inherent inequality in prostitution becomes a reference point for sexual and social relations, which are not rooted in equality, fairness, or respect.
It is not the prostituted women we must penalize but rather the men who demand access to them. Prostitution is the oldest form of patriarchal oppression, which is why we must hold accountable the men who pay for sex.
I remember working indoors and men calling in and ordering a woman: “I want brunette, small boobs, will do ____ or Asian, round face, petite.” You get the idea. How is it equality if women can be reduced to what amounts to ordering a pizza and picking the toppings? How are those men respecting, honouring, and valuing women?
What I remember about my years as a prostituted woman was how much I tried to find something empowering in what I found myself doing.
That by choosing who raped me, based on their ability to pay, I was empowered.
That by consenting to the abuse, I was free from it.
That by caving in to the demands of patriarchy; by working hard to look like what they wanted, talk like they wanted; and when submitting to sex on their terms, for which I got money, that I had somehow bested them and was now in control of them.
But I was not, for I remember how much I flinched when they moved too quickly, how I would lay under them and in my imagination be anywhere else. How they always seemed to have a sob story for why they needed to buy me, but my sob story of not wanting to be under them, not wanting to have them in my mouth, was never as urgent a need as theirs.
Saying prostitution will always be with us is cynicism and hopelessness.
Sweden, the global beacon of hope, criminalized the buying, pimping, and procuring, and decriminalized the women in 1999. It has since seen a drastic drop in prostitution. Sweden is no longer a destination country for human traffickers—to gender-equality seekers, that is a country that says, “We value our women.” Norway, Iceland, and Bulgaria have all followed Sweden’s noble lead.
They also implemented exiting strategies, adequate welfare, and a huge awareness campaign when the laws were implemented. I am a realist and know it will be a hard transition period, but I find great hope in the fact that there are 10-year-olds in Sweden growing up in a country committed to mutual equality and opportunity.
To me, it is about legacy. No prostituted women I know, myself included, wants her daughter to be a prostitute. We know firsthand that it devastates the mind, body, and spirit.
So, with every breath in me, I will work ceaselessly towards creating a world rooted in fairness and equality, that values humanity—and that will be done by stamping out prostitution, the world’s oldest oppression, which is within our grasp to do.
Trisha Baptie is the executive director of Honour Consulting & Ministries and a founding member of EVE: Exploited Voices Educating.
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http://www.happyendingsdoc.com
This year they are trying to change the law to make it illegal again.
We followed all sides of the issue, the politicans, the police, the local residents, and the women who work in the spas.
In a perfect world everyone would live in happy, loving, and sexually fulfilling relationships. No one would ever be tempted to stray and no one would ever choose to pay for casual sex (or to accept payment for it). Is it really possible to legislate such a world into existence?
We don't need the likes of a moralist like Trisha Baptie telling adults how they should govern themselves around their sexuality.Her efforts to criminalize consenting adults engaging in adult sexual behaviour must be firmly rejected.
What about Men who engage in prostitution with Adult Rent Boys. Ms Baptie wants to criminalize this adult homosexual behaviour as well it seems because there is exchange of money.
What about the Transgender Sex Worker who needs to engage in prostitution in order to pay for sex reassignment surgery because right-wing governments are refusing to pay these necessary medical health costs. Ms Baptie wants to criminalize these sex workers as well it seems.
What about the poor Aboriginal women and young males fleeing poverty-stricken reserves who come to the bigger Cities to survive economically It seems Ms Baptie wants to criminalize them also.
It goes on and on. There is nothing like an old Ho who has found redemption in the light and than comes back to preach to others about their supposed evil ways. Give me a break Ms Baptie.
Ms Baptie goes on about men having access to women and how horrible this is. I laugh at this since women in the confines of marriage often had access to the male/husband's income and often this was the only way economically for women to rear children. Under Ms Baptie's distorted thinking this should be criminalized as well.
Ms Baptie now because she had an imperfect world wants to create some fantasy of a perfect world, In her image no less. Seems to me she just replaced positioning from being in positions with the ordinary working stiff to now serving the moral upstanding men who preach intolerant messages to the converted/weak in so many of the religious institutions today. Those same institutions where Ms Baptie spreads her hurtful and hate filled messages.
Ms Baptie says she wants to stamp out the world's oldest oppression and if she is really serious about this perhaps she can start by taking on many of those religious institutions which arguably are the world's oldest oppressors. And perhaps she can leave consenting adults alone in making their own decisions and choices around sexuality and freedom issues.
Jamie Lee
When you take prostitution and say it is only a women's issue this only ensures that women and men in the sex trade will continue to face harm as a consequence of being sex workers. Solutions to this issue of harm will not come when you frame prostitution as one of patriarchy and women's inequality. All you are doing is placing blame and that isn't to me very solution oriented.
The real social issue of prostitution has to be framed in many different contexts and only when we do this will we be able to address the various concerns surrounding prostitution.
Continually and exclusively framing it as Ms Baptie has and which Abolitionists/Prohibitionists like her and her followers do only leads to more violence for sex workers. History has shown this to be true.
This Abolitionist/Prohibitionist agenda is no different than what the modern-day Shame the Hookers engaged in during the 70's and early 80's. They were notorious for placing blame and lobbied for the West End injunction which lead directly to hundreds of women, men and trans sex workers being murdered.
How can that be considered an equality based solution?
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I think that you could similarly argue that it would be difficult to find a person who would not commit arson. perjury, fraud, or any other number of criminal activities given a sufficiently large bribe. Your statement makes me think that criminalizing the purchasers of sex is definitely a step in the right direction.
Many of these women do not speak English and sending in undercover police who can can speak their language to offer assistance may be helpful. Finding male undercover police at the VPD or RCMP to take on the job likely won't be a problem.
First off, the cheap shots are unappreciated and are discrediting a woman who is doing amazing good. Your comments completely miss what Trisha Baptie is trying to do. Taking shots her religeon is not what we are here to do. She did not mention her faith in the article, neither should you. She is realistic and is not comdemning sex before marriage. What she is condeming is the state of the women in prositution. (I'm not even going to discuss the "old ho" comment. Was that really nessary Miss Lee?)
The first thing you are wrong about is your use of the word "criminalize". Baptie herself states that, "It is not the prostituted women we must penalize but rather the men who demand access to them." May I remind you prositution is already criminalized? Its not legal. So technically, Baptie's job is done. What she is fighting for is decriminalizing the woman's side of prositution and criminalizing the men's, as they quite successfully done in Sweden.
The examples you gave (trangendered, aboriginal) were very good, except for one thing. What kind of life are these people living while prosituting? It is a world full of violence and abuse that will not end with the opening of brothels. It will simply push it from the view of public eye. Say someone is entered against their will while in a brothel, but is stopped half-way through. Have they been unraped because someone intervened?
The beauty of marriage can be distorted like anything else. I believe marriage should be a loving, equal relationship between any two people (same sex or not) who have decided to spend their lives together. Just another thing people need to work towards. Just because something is the way it is, doesn't mean it was supposed to be that way.
There is no intolerence in Baptie`s words. She does not bash the prositutes, she does not scream from the `higher post`` you say she inhabits. She asks just one simple question. Why should men have the right to buy sex? Why do we, as a society, allow the injustise aand abuse of prositution to continue? Your question seems to be, what do we do without prositution? And the answer to that is, we need to become more aware of the circumstances surrounding prositution. We need to address the issues of poverty, of desperation.
Baptie seems willing to address these issues.You are more concerned with horrible right-wing governments and who's Christian.
Prostitution is actually legal. There are three points in the criminal code concerning prostitution which make certain activities surrounding prostitution illegal.
It is illegal to solicit.
It is illegal to live off the avails of prostitution - pimp.
It is illegal (currently) to have a common bawdy house.
These are the three things that those involved in full decriminalization would like to have removed from the criminal code. This would industrialize prostitution and render pimps and those higher up in the sex-industrial chain businessmen.
Would full decriminalization promote the "choice" of "consenting" adults, or put more weight on a top-heavy power imbalance? These are some questions we need to think about.
In order to move towards equality, Trisha is actually fighting for the Swedish Model of Prostitution law which would NOT CRIMINALIZE THE BOUGHT, only those whose demand puts these people in such a dangerous position.
Jamie-Lee, before you write another descriminating comment, at least take the time to do some basic research.
Also, to the men who believe they're being financially or marritally exploited: you're probably not enslaved by poverty, addiction, or lack of social support. You're probably not being accosted by prostitutes or "beautiful women" on the street, begging you for your financial services. Perhaps the only thing you're being exploited by is the organ between your legs.
Can we stop the knee-jerk reaction comments, and actually read the article? That'd be great.
To say that we needs laws to disallow the exchange of sexual services for money is to say that an adult woman does not have the right to decide how to use her body. It is saying that she is too weak or stupid to make what the author of this article and others in her mindset view as the 'right' choice.
This is not an example of female empowerment, because you would be taking away her power over her body.
It is illegal to solicit. IN PUBLIC
Yes, news flash, apparently, since neither the reporters nor the interviewed ever want to deal with reality, but prostitution (the exchange of $ for sex) is perfectly and completely legal. In fact, Vancouver itself issues biz licenses for body rub, for escorts, etc, all in the name of $ for sexual activity. I cannot fathom how supposed intelligent & informed adults commonly get this one basic fact so wrong.
It seems to me the writer of this article used to work for agencies, and had no say in who she saw, no power over her job, & obviously little or no biz savvy to do the work necessary to be successful in sex work. Possibly she handed over a good portion of the extortionist agencies that are out there, with their legal biz licenses, who fine the workers for cancelling, not being on time, not showing up, advertising, etc etc, whatever they can in order to suck as much of the intial client fee away from the employee and into their own pockets. Like any employee, the writer disliked her employers and her job. Big whoop. Welcome to the world of working for a living.
In the Langara Dialogues on the June 17th, a speaker from UBC made an interesting point about consent. She wondered why poverty, addiction, and lack of resources doesn't factor into the issue of "consent".
Food for thought.
It was also said that 92% of prostituted women want out. I went to a meeting on the 16th of June hosted by FIRST where there was a panel of speakers advocating for full decriminalization. One of the speakers said that the vast majority of "sex-workers" are actually self-employed. It seems as if this writer isn't the only person who didn't enjoy her "job" as a prostituted woman. It may not be as simple as having a bad employer either.
I also think a woman should be able to choose what to do with herself...I just wonder how many choices prostituted women really have. The choice to sell generally comes with several other bleak options...the choice to starve and have your family starve. The choice to...oh wait, I can't think of anything else.
Maybe we should be giving them livable welfare, child-care, affordable education, and, if need be, addiction resources instead of handing out the old condom and lube band-aid over and over again.
Exactly my thoughts as a former escort.
Yes, if you have to have sex when you don't feel attracted to the person it does feel like rape, even if you agreed to it.
Why I did it? For the MONEY! Yes, I did lie to men about how much I enjoyed myself, but that was an act.
And prostitution, or the "freedom to do with your body what you want" has nothing to do with feminism. This argument is nothing but another brainwashing of women by men, and it should be called "men do with your body what they want."
Keep up the good work! Swedish women are very lucky.
I've done this work of my own free will, I have found it to be a dignified, fulfilling and legitimate way to earn a living
It ´s easy to defend prostitute when you are not a third-world woman,when you have good social status and when you a white and a man! It ´s not a matter of "opinion",it ´s cruelty agianst women and must be stopped at any cost.
A good paradigm for considering the consequences of prostitution can be seen through the First Nation Native people’s (Indigenous or Aboriginal) medicine wheel concept. There are four quadrants in the wheel which represent the mental, spiritual, emotional, and physical parts of being human. Our whole being is affected by these four components. In the mental area of the wheel are: self-image, communication, assertiveness, family problems, self criticism, and parenting. In the spiritual area: belief in a creator, sacred ceremonies, ethnic values/morals, restorative healing, and forgiveness. In the emotional area: identity/ express feelings, conflicts/anger, self-esteem, relationships, grief/loss, trust, suicidal thoughts, abuse, and family breakdown. Finally, in the physical area are: health, finances, friends/support system, employment, education, legal, addictions, recreation/hobbies, and sex.
When I looked at the medicine wheel I asked myself, how many of these components are affected by selling sex as a means for living? In my experience, all of them, and not in a positive way! Think about it!!!! Selling your body for sex may seem to be a temporary means to an end (survival) but seldom does anyone get in the business and get out quickly. We end up with post traumatic stress from experiencing bad dates. We experience violence from clients, family and society for being a prostitute. Prostitutes are considered the scum of society or simply an object for a man’s sexual release. Men who want prostitution legalized want women to be an open commodity and available for their pleasure. They don’t ask or care whether she is happy, healthy, or how old she is.
As for harm reduction to the women through legalization, I don’t believe it will happen. I have been sexually abused at a massage parlor and an escort service, both supposedly ”˜safe’ and ”˜controlled’ environments for prostitution, and so have others. Legalizing prostitution will NOT reduce the risk to women. It will not make this ”˜work’ safe, nor will it give dignity, self esteem, or create a healthy lifestyle for women!!! I realize that there are several women fighting for legalization of prostitution, but I know that when they have had enough bad dates themselves they too will want out. Please I implore you to contact your politicians and say DO NOT LEGALIZE PROSTITUTION. I give my props to Trisha and her right to free speech and her candid experiential voice.You go GURL! This is not a religious opinion either as some have mentioned--its experiential. Aas the woman said above the ones who are most vulnerable, in poverty, and of lower classes, under-educated, they are the ones exploited the most. To stop this the Swedish model is the best as in all reality this so called oldest profession sadly will not be eradicated.
Feel free to contact me at stcfministries@gmail.com.
To summarize, the arguments against decriminalizing prostitution are entirely sentimental and not based on rational thought.
I guess you likely think anything is okay, if there's commercial value to it? I would hazard a guess you're totally in favour of clear-cut logging (because its one of the economic drivers of BC), drift net fishing (because the fishing boats make a living doing it), and war (because arms manufacterers increase their revenues)?!?! Your argument that those against prositution are against it because it's a "business transaction" is a straw man.
I guess you ARE an attractive guy, making lots of money, and your DO buy sex. Great.
Why don't YOU be rational and consider the fact that everytime you mount some poor girl who's taking your $500, she is someone's daughter, sister, or mother...and I highly doubt you'd want YOUR OWN daughter, sister, or mother selling themselves in such a way.
Attractive guys who make lots of money have NO NEED to buy sex because for the most part there are plenty of women who find them attractive and would sleep with such men without a "transaction fee". I certainly would not be happy if my daughter, sister, or mother were making a living that way but I would hold THEM responsible for choosing that line of work and wouldnt blame the sex industry as a whole. The strain of feminism that is so staunchly against prostitution has a very strong marxist element to it which opposes ANY kind of business transactions. Stamping out prostitution gives regular women a complete monopoly on sex which they already use to manipulate their bf's and husbands. I'm NOT insinuating that all women behave this way but I am insinuating that the reason many women oppose prostitution is because they feel it takes away their sexual monopoly which they use to empower themselves and get what they want.
>>What she is fighting for is decriminalizing the woman's side of prositution and criminalizing the men's, as they quite successfully done in Sweden.<<
The above statement is why I disagree so strongly with Trisha Baptie said and is advocating!!! She is advocating policies which openly favor women's self-interest at men's expense! She really has failed to make the case that prostitution is unfair to women, but that stamping it out would give women an unfair advantage over men.
Why don't you go out there and sell your body for about a week. But make sure you don't say no to "painful" demands, because you not going to make much money. Make sure you don't pick and choose your "tricks", cus Pimps don't really like that!
To woman who are still in biz and attacking Ms. Baptie's message:
92% of the girls would exit from the biz TODAY if they could! You are clearly the 8% who is safe, and keeping your own money!
Ms. Baptie is talking about the 92% who is controlled and must work under HORRIBLE conditions.
To JAMIE LEE: Sweetheart, lets start with the poor aboriginal woman and man who come to the big cities, Just so you know, they don't come to the big cities on their OWN, they get picked up by someone, (called trafficking) and they are controlled, and forced to work the field. They do not make any money. If you don't believe me, then please go and find a wealthy 18 yrs old girl (I say 18, because they start this job usually when they are 14) so, pls show me a wealthy 18 yrs old Aboriginal girl who owns her own NOT prostitution related business, clean of alcohol, or drugs, or going to University as we speak.... Because if what you saying is true, that they are going into this biz, to make a better life, in 4 years they should have made about 1.3 million dollars....
Transgender’s are doing the sex work, because the government don’t provide financial help for them for their surgeries. Who’s fault is that?
I work with Transgender’s in my shelter, and BELIEVE ME when I say this, they don’t want to come home every day beaten up covered in blood”¦Believe me, they had different dreams for them selves as well”¦
Sorry guys...keep reading the rest of the comments...:-)
I'd like to point out that fundamentalist Islam has successfully stamped out prostitution by abrogating womens sexual freedom. Just look at Saudi Arabia & Iran, where prostitution is non-existant. So I ask all of you women here who agree with Trisha Baptie: Is THAT what you want??? Should our sisters and daughters be legally compelled to remain virgins until marriage? Should adultery be criminalized too? I think I can say with complete certainty that the vast majority of western women are NOT willing to give up their sexual freedom just to eliminate prostitution. And Melanie, I do realize that society disapproves of prostitution but it also disapproves of infidelity but I sincerely doubt that Canadians, or even Americans would tolerate laws against it. Prostitution continues despite being outlawed, and its pretty clear that its here and here to stay despite the outrage towards it from the far right and far left.
I was reading some of the comments, and was truly horrified by some of the responses. For example:
"[Disallowing the exchange of sexual services for money] is not an example of female empowerment, because you would be taking away her power over her body."
Okay. The whole empowerment argument. I just can't wrap my mind around it. How does having the ability to sell your body so that another person can do whatever they want to it give one empowerment? Someone, please explain that to me. I absolutely believe in equal rights for all, but I do NOT believe in the right of any person to 'buy' anyone for sex. Being objectified is not empowerment, nor is it okay.
In Ontario Libraries, under the aegis of tax dollars, are displayed and offered free to patrons and OUR CHILDREN- pimps catalogues, in bulk, from news stands, free, to any one capable of picking them up. WE have hit a real low when the last issue of NOW Magazine's Valentine's Issue...which was not about love but taking children’s dolls Barbie and Ken and their cohort Gi Joe and buddies to photographically re-enact in full colour pornography including violent sex acts...WHY...cause the publisher couldn't be charged...as they are plastic dolls not people....why do our children have such a problem with our ambiguity...? These are displayed at child eye level and can be found next to the children’s section and shelving of the libraries of Southern Ontario Libraries. Not one of our leaders contacted are willing to take a stand and say - “HEY, the Emperor has no clothes!!”
If you feel this is wrong please write Ontario Premier McGuinty and tell him (contact him here: https://www.premier.gov.on.ca/feedback/feedback.asp?Lang=EN)...or GO HERE and sign the on-line PETITION which until today has never been published....the reason for the small numbers....please hurray and distribute this URL to friends and family and anyone you know who values our future: Our CHILDREN.
We want to present this along with the over 600 hand written signatures from indignant parents and adults who think this is wrong.
Please SIGN HERE:
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/stop_pimping_our_libraries/index.html
If you are under 18 years of age...please find a better place to spend your time...if you are older...you need to see this or you won’t believe it:
http://www.syncogent.com/Theft_of_Innocence/Aberrant_and_Abhorrent.html
For more information please email info@educatingvoices.ca
Confidentiality GUARANTEED!!!
I would normally laugh at the pathetic moralizing and sanctimony if it weren't for one unpleasant fact:
The urge to criminalize a sexual act between consenting adults is what results in the marginalization, stigma, and increased risk for the women involved. Its very illegality leads to the exploitation you claim to combat. It's when the nosy, uptight moral guardians get involved that it gets pushed underground and led to the conditions that allow violent men to hurt prostitutes.
There's a spectrum of women involved in prositution and to say none of them are doing it of their own free will is silly. Neither is it true to insist that all sex acts performed for money are by definition violent or exploitative. That's just feminist dogma. Anybody with common sense understands this.
Also please strive for accuracy people. This is not about selling ones body. I still have mine. It's about the provision of sexual services for a fee. Works for me. Your intrusion upon my autonomy is highly offensive.
"I certainly would not be happy if my daughter, sister, or mother were making a living that way..."
Once you can honestly answer WHY you would not be happy for your daughter, sister or mother to make a living this way i think you will reach an understanding on a more similar wavelength to Trisha and find yourself in agreement with her argument(s).
In fact if legislation such as that in Sweden was implemented it would result in the marginalization, stigma and increased risk for the MEN involved.
And that is exactly what is needed to root out this exploitative, oppressive practise.
No one can sue a John off the street. But legitimate businesses can ask for ID when providing controlled items like cigarettes... why not sex?
I think the answer is not in criminalizing things that cannot be controlled. All that does is drive the business into the hands of criminals. Criminals who will have no qualms about trafficking and replacing girls who have bad things happen to them. I think the solution is to make it more like a controlled substance with rules and regulations that protect the women and the men who choose this profession whether they are desperate or not.
One thing to note. You keep mentioning the lack of choice these women have... so what happens when you take away this last desperate option? Its not enough to decriminalize the women and criminalize the men... that just means you make it harder for those desperate women to make a living with what is already a hard choice. If they have no other options that prostitution than taking that away from them seems less than useful.
This is similar to child labour laws. Its all well and good to be horrified but when that child can no longer work and his family starves you lose that great moral high ground that sounded so simple. Do I advocate child labour? Hells no!! But I also recognize there are long reaching consequences to moral dilemmas like this.
I dont want women forced into prostitution, but I dont want to take away their only employment either. It seems to me the only answer is in regulation so that these women can earn a living in safety and have a chance to leave the industry if they wish to. I think you would find that there is less demand for trafficked people when there is less risk and more legitimacy provided. Why should clients pay for trafficked sex workers if they have a respected and reputable business to go to instead. That would be like willingly drinking Uncle Stinky's Rotgut Moonshine that might make you go blind instead of just taking a trip to the liquor store. Although I do not mean to say that trafficked sex workers are rotgut. Just that purveyors of illegal "goods" will go out of business if we provide a more legitimate option.... not just out of sight out of mind legality but actual regulation of the industry.
The less legitimate sex work becomes the worse women will get treated. We cant legislate morality but we can regulate it like we do for driving, smoking, drinking, and drugs. We can make it harder to abuse women like we make harder for children to abuse alcohol. It doesnt destroy the problem but it can make it much more difficult to achieve OR get away with.
Now having read my whole note... does it make a difference knowing that I am a woman?