The femininjas are not a feminist group. if there were, they would be women looking to get beside the work of women's organizations busy working to interfere with the damage wrought by patriarchy. But they are not. No. They appear to be bent on interfering with the life-affirming, life-saving work of women's organizations. "Ninja's" indeed. That, by the way, is cultural appropriation, to claim the name of a cultural tradition not your own to lend credibility to your activities. And it's not typically regarded as particularly cool or progressive. Just sayin'. There are no spaces that are for women-born-female in the Downtown Eastside. None. A health facility for women will be quite busy enough caring for the partiuclar health and social needs of women. Transgendered folks have different bodies than do women born female, and quite different health requirements for the most part. Health requirements, i might add, that are specifically offered by a number of facilities and clinics in Vancouver. I would ask Jamie Lee and the femininjas to please just back off. And another thing...it really gets my goat that now i have to become yet another 'other' and call myself a 'woman-born-female' in order to distinguish myself from just anyone who thinks they might be a woman, no matter their bodies, no matter their training. fer cryin' out loud.  

Erin, you are sadly mistaken and your attitude is hardly that of a feminist. Feminists are inclusive and welcoming, not exclusive. Feminists are about positives, not negatives.

We are not interfering with "life-affirming, life-saving work", we are publicising the fact that Vancouver Womens' Health Collective's discrimination is in in fact not "life-affirming, life-saving" but life-endangering. By excluding transwomen Lu's is endangering their lives.

Your language shows that you subscribe to the "woman born woman" fallacy. I have a little news for you, Erin. Women are not born, they grow. Women are the end product of their life's experiences; they do not spring fully formed from anyone's forehead no matter how many times you wish it so. It matters little where a person starts from; where they grow to and what they become is far more important than what they may keep in their pants.

And as for cultural appropriation, what of it? I know of no requirement for Ninjas to be Japanese. If all cultural appropriation is bad, then you'd better be prepared to throw away your car, because that's either Japanese or American, your language because that's English, your house because that's European and your clothes because they're ultimately Iraqui. What will you have left?

By your words you throw in transwomens' faces that you do not consider them to be women. You police their gender and insist that because you're not trans that you are somehow superior to transwomen and therefore have the right to decide for them how they should live and where they may go. What in the world makes you think you have the right to do that? How can you possibly be so arrogant? You obviously know nothing about transpeoples' lives and you are proud in your ignorance, as if that makes you somehow superior. You have a lot to learn. That you can say "Transgendered folks have different bodies than do women born female, and quite different health requirements for the most part." shows how deep your ignorance truly is. Transwomen on HRT are fully hormonally female, have female brain structures and more importantly, react to drugs in the same way any other woman reacts to drugs. Saying anything else is a blatant falsehood. You also show your appalling ignorance when you insist that services "...are specifically offered by a number of facilities and clinics in Vancouver. I defy you to show me one that is not in peril of having its budget axed by Premier Campbell's Liberals. Also, you conveniently gloss over the fact that Lu's is a Pharmacy. Pharmacies supply drugs, not medical services. Pharmacists need no more special knowledge to dispense drugs to a transwoman than they need to dispense drugs to a cis (not-trans) woman. Please do not try to deflect attention away from the issue at hand.

If it "gets your goat" so much to have to distinguish yourself from transwomen, then perhaps you need to examine your prejudices. It's not transwomens' fault that you feel uncomfortable about them so don't make the mistake of blaming them. Check your privilege dear, it's showing. 

It's so disappointing that any so-called "feminist" would refuse to provide services to ALL women. I am a feminist and will not join or support any organization that discriminates against women, including those women who are transgendered, and thus have to deal with both sexism, transphobia and sometimes homophobia as well. The thinking behind this reminds me of 1970s activists who discriminated against lesbians because they didn't want to be associated with "those" women. There is no equality for women without all of us having the same opportunities, including in access to health care. Shame on the Women's Health Collective and the Lu Pharmacy. 

You don't need to become an 'other.' Just to stop making us the 'other.' 

This is why I am always hesitant to support any 'women only' organizations and policies.
Too often they code 'discrimination' in their declaration for feminist activism.
As previous comment has pointed out, feminism is about inclusion and acceptence.
If those organizations are fighting aginst discrimination, why cannot they see what they do is simply reapplying the same logics of binary biological assumption according to which 'women' used to, and are still, excluded and discriminated against.
Such policies and organization first draw a boundary around the 'others', those who are not born female declare their inferior, then exclude them.
Antagonism is not what feminism means to achieve or create.
There is no social justice in such practices.
It's a shame that they are not uncommon among many proclaimed 'feminist' organizations. The Women's Health Collective and the Lu Pharmacy is one of those.
Too bad I am away and cannot join the protest. 

Isn't this pharmacy geared to women--transgender or no--who truly identify as women and are vulnerable and need a pharmacy that regular miscreants, pimps and johns can't chase them into or drag them into? Why on earth would anyone be against that? If someone told me, a woman, that I couldn't go into a pharmacy because it was geared for vulnerable males only, to keep them safe from horrible women out there, I'd respect that because my concern as a compassionate person would be more for the welfare of those vulnerable men than for my own need to be able to swagger in anywhere. Are we all so damn precious and self-important these days that we begrudge others the services they truly need? What's wrong with us??????
Beth 

"it really gets my goat that now i have to become yet another 'other' and call myself a 'woman-born-female'...."

Have to, Erin? It would seem as though you are eagerly (orgasmically even?) defining yourself as superior by claiming to own patent, trademark and copyright rights to "woman." Stop being an oppressive, mean-spirited bigot - and stop being an apologist for those who also are such - and see how much of the true vision of feminism falls into place.

http://endablog.wordpress.com/2009/07/09/more-anti-woman-bigotry-from-wo... 

As a born women, yes I believe we need spaces that can be biologically born women only.
I feel for transgendered and understand that while growing up they felt they were really women. But your internal struggle cannot compare to the real struggle biologically born females face from the day we are born.
We DO have different health issues, do you menstruate and have to deal with all the health effects that can have? do you have issues with cervical cancer? does going for your pap smear bring back the trauma of rape for you? do you suffer milk duct issues long after your mild dried up? Just to name 4 of the hundreds of health issues biologically born women face.
No you don't because you can't, because you are not a biologically born women. Taking hormones is NOT the same.
YES there are differences and I (and many other women)see NOTHING wrong with having biologically born women's space.
If you really wanted to be included you would stop being bullies and be sensitive to other's feelings. Do you really want to be in a space where you had to bully your way in?
Why can you not leave the one place for women alone, respect what it is trying to do. Stop being like a alpha male and demanding your own way all the time, with no regard as to who gets hurt in the process. 

"My wife has just had a baby!"
"What is it?"
"A woman!"

I don't think so ;) 

I'm a biologically born woman and I never had kids ergo didn't experience my milk ducts drying up. Does that mean I'm not a real woman? I'm sure many think that. Also, I knew a young woman who had cancer and had a hysterectomy at a very young age and so didn't ever menstruate or have children. Would you say she's not a real woman? How about the women who have, naturally, too much testosterone in their systems and have hair on their faces and other things that concern them? Are they not real women? What about nuns, who take a vow of celibacy and never experience intercourse or childbirth? Are they not real women? Good grief. This could go on forever. Open the fucking pharmacy doors already. I'm thinking this is less about woman as opposed to men than it is about vulnerable people who identify as women as opposed to victimizers who do not. One question: what happens if a horrible, territorial alpha female attacks a vulnerable beta female in the pharmacy? What happens if a female pharmacist is a total uppity bitch to a woman she perceives as difficult or something? Then what? Who do we call to help? Are male police officers allowed to cross the threshold to come to the rescue? Or are only female officers allowed in the pharmacy? This is driving me crazy.
Beth 

@menstruatingdifferences
All those health differences you raise might have relevance in a health clinic, but they have absolutely no bearing on what a pharmacy does. None at all.

But I will address three of your supposed differences:
1: Transwomen who have had SRS are equally at risk of cervical cancer. The same cancer cells can find a home in our vaginas as easily as yours and we have to have pap smears for the very same reason you do.
2: Yes, for those of us who are unfortunate enough to have been raped (and equally fortunate enough to survive the experience), going for a pap smear can bring back the trauma.
3. It is entirely possible for a transwoman to lactate. Our breasts have the same structures yours do and we can encounter the same issues when they don't work properly.
Don't be so quick to claim exclusive ownership of an experience just because you were born female.

So your attempt to deflect attention away from the issue fails; your supposed differences are not so different after all, any reasonably competent and caring Health Care professional can learn to treat transwomen and here's the biggie you're glossing over: Lu's is a prharmacy, not a clinic. It takes no more magical powers or esoteric knowledge to dispense medications to a transwoman than is does to dispense them to a non-trans woman.

Those differences you "(and many other women)" see are your own prejudices. They do not exist in the real world.

...the real struggle females face from the day we are born is our struggle too. We suffer under the patriarchy the very same way you do. It's strange to see a self-identified feminist, presumably dedicated to fighting the premise that your body does not define you stooping to the use of that very same argument when it suits your purposes and supports your prejudices. That tactic sullies you. You use the same tools your oppressors use against you to oppress others you wish to feel superior to. This demeans you and makes you no better than the patriarchy you claim to fight.

We are not being the bullies @menstruatingdifferences, we are the victims of your bullying. We are not trying to bully [our] way in, we are trying to educate you and your colleagues on your bullying, your lack of empathy and your dangerous exclusionary policies that fly in the face of everything feminism stands for. I throw your words right back at you: :@menstruatingdifferences, Stop being like a alpha male and demanding your own way all the time, with no regard as to who gets hurt in the process.

No matter what you may say or how you may try to say it, we are women, equal to you and deserving of the same respect and privilege you have. No more, no less. 

menstruatingdifferences,
True, menstration is one of issues probably only so-called 'women born women' might suffer.
So, tell me, is the pharmacy only has service for menstration?
If the purpose of such pharmacy is to provide service for some sensitive illnesses which people might not want to discuss or disclose in front of their male (for whatever that means) friends, why doesn't it call itself certain illness speciality pharmacy.
Drawing boundary by illness, like many brain, cancer clinics, it might be able to eschew itself from producing discriminations according to gender, sexuality, or any identity.
After all, shouldn't medial service care about illness, not who the patient is?
I don't thinke the arguements people are making here is to say there should not be a safe place for people to deal with their health issues.
Rather, it is how discriminations and 'others' are produced through its proclaiming definition of 'women'.
Seriously, whoever use menstration as a definite feature of 'woman' should do some research on elite female athletes who train so hard that sometimes their bodies don't menstrate.
So, according to such logics, they probably should compete in male categories. 

How about a Humans-only pharmacy, which doesn't stock veterinary drugs. Oh, and part of its policy is

"Due to the special problems the Negro race has with sickle-cell anemia for which our staff are not trained, and the fact that we only carry prosthetics for White people, we do not serve Black customers."

But they proudly proclaim they serve humans.

Now this might just possibly be seen as a teeny bit racist, right? A Bad Thing? So now we have a Women's pharmacy that caters for all women - oh, except those who are black. Sorry, except for those who are Trans. Or Intersexed, unless the right guess was put on their birth certificate.

Imagine an organisation whose policy contained words like this:

"We are a feminist organization focused on women and women’s health. For over 30 years, we have advocated that women must control their own bodies and make decisions about their own health care. Therefore, we feel that it is essential that a woman be born in Canada and have the psychological experiences of living as a girl and a woman in Canadian society in order to embrace the work of the Canadian Women’s Health Collective. For us, membership and services are not open to immigrants or aborigines."

That's basically what the VWHC is all about.  

@menstruatingdifferences: "I feel for transgendered..." You feel for transgendered WHAT? Seriously, you don't refer to my black ass as "I feel for black", you'd say "I feel for black PEOPLE." Part of your personal vendetta against trans women seems to be grounded in your inability to see them as people.

A pharmacy doesn't do any of those things, while we're at it. It's about fair access to medication prescribed by doctors. It's about cutting every woman who lives and works in the DTES community a fair break. And, oh yeah, if you're so damn positive that menstruation makes a difference, why aren't you out protesting up a storm against things like poorly tested birth control pills that allegedly reduce your frequency of ovulation? That's going to have a far worse effect on cis women when it turns out to cause a host of ovarian, cervical, and uterine health problems than, oh no, my seeing a trans woman at the pharmacy. You're finding a difference between us and trans women and blowing it way out of proportion to support a policy that doesn't really serve any purpose but division.

I second MRN; my sister, who so happens to be trans, had a cervical dysplasia scare a couple of years ago. I'm sure, given that like she's a rape survivor, just like me, it was no fun having to deal with repeated incursions. But this is a paper tiger with no bearing on a women's health *pharmacy*.

I refuse to join in your bullying, @menstruatingdifferences, because I don't believe my ovaries make me better or worse than any woman, cis, trans, or none of the above, and I don't want my trans sisters to think for a second that I join in your patriarchy-upholding separatism. 

I like how not menstruating is something held against trans women, as if we consciously chose "I don't want to ever menstruate" and got that wish, instead of, you know, having to deal with the realities our bodies represent.

Plus, I'm kinda surprised to hear that trans women don't get raped. Is there some kind of force field that prevents it?

menstruatingdifferences, please do keep posting your comments. I want to be able to hold these examples up when people say "Oh, they're not transphobic, they're just trying to provide needed services to women." How many people can really justify supporting a feminist who outright says trans women don't have to worry about rape? 

There are 5 million pharmacies for everyone to go to. So what if there is one women born women pharmacy? I don't think transgendered people are being excluded from a life or death heath service here. Cross the street, go to the next corner, go to the next block, go to your London Drugs or Shoppers or Garlane's or local Portland Hotel Society enterprise. Isn't there a shiny new pharmacy in Tinseltown too?

I am going to be very unpopular here and say that it is the very small, if persistent, group of women who are trying to continue one version of feminism and its accompanying activism who are actively being discriminated against and bullied into silence. Feminism and feminist activism (s) are experiments in dismantling patriarchal power where it impacts women.

There are many possibilities and perspectives on what that looks like. For the women running this pharmacy, they have an idea they are trying to work out and a particular way they want to go about it. All the power to them. I don't hear them saying that anyone else trying any other kind of activity or social enterprise is a bad thing; in fact if folks in the feministninjas think this is such a great idea that they want to expand on it, I am sure the Health Collective team would love to sit down with you and discuss how to support you to start your own, obviously much needed, service. I can practically guarantee they will.

I don't understand why Jamie Lee Hamilton & co have to try to undermine and challenge every feminist activity not to their liking. Must everyone who disagrees be put through the purity test and face public humiliation when they fail? Asking for inclusion and citing transphobia while being closed to any idea which does not suit is contradictory. I know, every group has had to stand up and challenge mainstream feminism to get heard and get power. But the Health Collective women are not mainstream feminists and never have been. They have an excellent record of responding to criticism internally and from the community and this is why they are able to take on such a large and daunting and entirely new sort of feminist enterprise - they have staying power because they are true to their base while being imaginative and fearless.

And really - while you harass and attempt to silence the women at the pharmacy, and the few folks who dare to disagree with you here, our Prime Minister is signing free trade agreements which resulted in the military police in Peru killing 150 indigenous people in the last 2 days. People in our own city, no matter their gender, are being denied EI and welfare and yes, access to life saving prescriptions (because of poverty, not a lack of places to get the prescriptions filled.)

I am not going to be a naif and ask us all just to get along. That is not going to happen. But I am going to ask for perspective and some imagination and that we all give ourselves some room to move, make our moves and our own mistakes. And I am going to say that fighting the Health Collective is not fighting the power, and it is not even fighting the good fight.

In sisterhood.


 

@Menstruatingdifferences You begin by saying that you "feel for transgendered and understand that while growing up they felt they were really women", yet stoop to concluding that the typical trans activist is an 'alpha male' "demanding [their] way all the time, with no regard as to who gets hurt in the process". Are you implying something there by conjuring the spectre of an aggressive male in female clothing, or are you going to keep feigning understanding and respect?

"But your internal struggle cannot compare to the real struggle biologically born females face from the day we are born." Yes, women do face a lot of struggles from just being born female, but most of the struggles are borne from living within a patriarchal society, not intrinsically because of their biologically female bodies. How a girl sees herself and what she learns about being 'woman' is formed both subconsciously by the girl, and deliberately by others while growing up. Menstruation is a real life issue, but where lies it's importance in an argument relative to all the other biological born struggles of non-women, which may include some intersexed people and men? Pap smears are NOT an universal 'quality' of being biologically female either, or you will be discounting the experiences of 'other' women born in non-western societies where pap smears do not exist. Rape is a real intersectional issue for women as a gender and class, but trauma should not be romanticized to the extent that rape is uniquely female, or that rape victims exist as if they eternally feel aghast about their own bodies. Rape in relations to the female body is a unique experience, but it is also something that should be discursively examined as to why it occurs, and addressed in real life terms, not pitted as a weapon against other groups. Could trans women who are post-op not be raped as well? How about pre-op trans who are 'found out', facing much more physically violent consequences than rape? Yes, I do believe a brutal beating and subsequent death to be more 'physically violent', but it is not to devalue how rape affects the lives of women, unlike how you have valued 'women born women' experiences above seemingly everything else. In fact, your arguments reek of a stratification of experiences, valuing and essentializing YOUR view of bio-female victimhood above the experiences of others, including 'other' women that live a day to day life different from your own, with different views on their bodies and with different methods of challenging the hegemonic discourse in their own society. It is when we value one struggle above that of another, gender struggles above that of 'race', class struggles above that of sexuality, or struggles of 'real women' above that of 'trans women' (who I honestly don't believe you even have a grain of empathy towards), we devalue everything as a whole. 

"No you don't because you can't, because you are not a biologically born women. Taking hormones is NOT the same.
YES there are differences and I (and many other women)see NOTHING wrong with having biologically born women's space." I am not biologically female. I willingly admit that. It is something I personally, and many other trans women have had to struggle with since we were aware that there are 'boys' and there are 'girls' in this world. We (I'm speaking rather presumptuously here) in fact struggle with gender and what it means to us on a daily basis, and we only claim/'appropriate' 'womanhood' because it is within that knowledge of feelings and experience we ultimately find meaning, not unlike how most biological girls grow up knowing 'womanhood' to be meaningful. Taking hormones, having to change our bodies simply to love ourselves they way we feel we should have been born, carries its own medical risks that include breast cancer, pulmonary embolism, and liver failure. You might argue that 'we brought it upon ourselves'. That I can only counter with a big 'eff you' we did, just like I bet we brought it upon ourselves to be discriminated against and devalued as less than human because we chose to be such freaks, to 'men invading the space of women by appropriating their clothing and mannerisms'.

"Do you really want to be in a space where you had to bully your way in? If you really wanted to be included you would stop being bullies and be sensitive to other's feelings. Do you really want to be in a space where you had to bully your way in? Why can you not leave the one place for women alone, respect what it is trying to do." Yes, trans people are 'obviously' invaders, but for what purpose? For the purpose of having power over women within women-only space, the last remaining bastion from men? Awfully contrived and simplistic if you ask me. All I can say is that I am merely human, not discarded shock troops for the patriarchal order. That is I am a person with feelings, one with her own herstory of struggling against patriarchy and feeling every bit of sharp and blunt force a typical woman would. We do not mindlessly accept patriarchy into our lives. It is often forced upon us, and we keep struggling the only way we know how, through a path paved by queers, straights, women and men alike. So really, is a 'woman born woman' space really necessary when all it does is it perpetuate biological female discomfort with trans women, and reinforces the idea that trans women are not real women? It may be difficult witnessing 40+ year old 'men' transitioning with all their socialized male behaviours and apparently vacuous femininity, barging through the door of womanhood and claiming to be female, but the alternative is often much worse for trans people if we are forced to struggle on without access to the one thing that makes us feel whole, our identity as women. But perhaps you couldn't care less about trans people, because 'real women' are all you care about. Even if so, I will still choose to continue caring about the struggles of everyone, regardless of their biological or social definition. And that means I will continue to support efforts to create women only space, and I will respect spaces and services that are not available to me because of my status as 'trans', but it does not mean I should accept this status quo and not fight for change in a meaningful way. 

Tamara said:

"There are 5 million pharmacies for everyone to go to. So what if there is one women born white pharmacy? I don't think non-white people are being excluded from a life or death heath service here. Cross the street, go to the next corner, go to the next block, go to your Soul Brother Drug Emporium or your pimp or your crack dealer or local Hooker's Flophouse Society enterprise. Isn't there a shiny new pharmacy for you people on your side of town too?"

OK - Tamara didn't say that.

But she effectively declared that she and her cadre of elitist bigots have the right to say that and to have it enforced by law if they suddenly decide that complexion is as important as claiming to have bled. 

Tamara, the issue is not the pharmacy, the issue is VWHC's discrimination. The issue is VWHC deciding to poilce the gender of a group of women and say "Some women are more equal than others". The issue is feminists being hypocritical enough to use the argument that transwomens bodies define them which flies in the face of the most basic elements of feminism: Our bodies do NOT define us.

Tamara, you are trying very hard to make us look like the bad guys. You are trying very hard to twist our motivations into "bullying you into silence". Can you honestly say that that posting notes on a window prescribing love, tolerance, openness and acceptance is bullying? We did not force the phramacy into closing, they did that on their own rather than have to listen to us.

When you say ...the Health Collective team would love to sit down with you and discuss how to support you to start your own, obviously much needed, service. I can practically guarantee they will. you Other transwomen. You shout clearly that you do not consider us to be women, but Other. You would rather see us ghetoised than have us in our rightful place in the community of women.

You say VWHC has ...an excellent record of responding to criticism internally and from the community you clearly do not mean in this case. Before we organised this protest they had already refused service to transwomen and refused to enter into a dialogue about it. Their minds are firmly made up. My proof? They closed rather than have a dialogue with us. They very firmly sent the message that they're not prepared to speak with us because we're telling them something they don't want to hear.

Your attmepts to deflect attention away form this point with examples of other tragedies and oppressions is a tactic of desperation. You cannot defend your indefensible stance so you cry out "look! Over there, a distraction!" and hope we'll go away.

You are not going to be a naif and ask us all just to get along. That is not going to happen. If this is so, it is because of VWHC and their supporters, not us. You subtly try to blame us for the impasse when you know very well that it is your own privilege speaking.

Tamara, we are not attempting to harass and silence the women at the pharmacy, we are attempting to educate and raise awareness of what they are doing wrong. Yet you try your best to distort our message of inclusiveness into hatred, bigotry and "silencing". You use the tactics of the Patriarchy against other women. Shame on you. 

How will this Pharmacy determine who was born a woman? Will they want to inspect their genitals? What about the many people who were born with an undetermined gender that was then decided by the doctor who may have been wrong? A Pharmacy isn't a place that should discriminate against ANYONE, male or female, gay or straight, transgendered or not. A Pharmacy should serve PEOPLE. If this were a medical clinic, I could understand the specialty, but, a Pharmacy is not a medical clinic.  

@Tamara Sure there are 5 million (give or take) other pharmacies in the world. But when most of them refuse to fill a prescription for 17-beta-estradiol or for spironolactone for a person with a "M" mark on their id card, or refuse to serve at all a person with a name like "Katherine" who has an "M" mark, the options dry up fast. Looking at Vancouver from across the border, I can only wonder how the US - or at least my part of it - manages to be more inclusive than Canada - or at least your part of it. 

Hello,

I would like to point out that I was calling for an open discussion and some creative approaches. I did not put down transgendered people or even fully state my own position. In response I am basically called a racist and a bigot and transphobic and told I am closed minded and deflecting discussion away from the real issue. And this is not bullying or an attempt to silence in any way?

There are two sides to this story and I am asking for some space for the other side to be heard, free from attack. This is an open forum after all, if only slightly moderated, and we should all be able to state our opinions without being called names.

And what is wrong with asking the activists against the VWHC why they are choosing their current tactics? If VWHC is criticizable, so is feministninjas. As an activist I think we have to be open to hear what other people have to say, even in the middle of our actions. Maybe there are other, more affirming and alliance building tactics we can all work on together? Just maybe?

I take the Katie's point about the availability of prescriptions and how mainstream health services respond to people - this includes transgendered folks, women who want to access ECP, etc. What I want to know is this: why aren't I called upon to stand in solidarity people at mainstream pharmacies when denial of prescriptions happens, and why is all the pressure put on Lu's place to fill the gap? It has been said before that every service cannot meet the needs of every person, even within the same identifyable group, which is why there are so many different immigrant services groups, women's groups, AIDS groups, housing groups and even groups of transgendered people. People tend to organize with people that they feel affinity with - and while we have come a long way in creating and defending human rights laws in this country and elsewhere in the hopes of limiting discriminatory practices, it is still a fact that sitting in a meeting with someone you completely disagree with and trying to build a group, a political practice or a service, is just not going to happen. So I ask again - if there is such a dire need for a pharmacy that meets the needs of transgendered folks, why am I not being asked to participate in helping to make that happen? Has the idea been brought forth to Qmunity meetings, like the last town hall? That would be an excellent place to start as there is so much work already accomplished, and starting a pharmacy to serve the community as part of the new Centre would fill the gaps in services for the whole community. That is just one place to start. What about working with the gender clinic ( I am sorry if I have the name wrong) to set something up as a project of that service, which has the backing of an entire hospital and university behind it? If this VWHC is so reprehensible and out of touch then leave them in your dust and make it happen for yourselves (I am not part of your organizing group, so it would be inappropriate for me to ID with you - this does not mean I am othering, it means I am paying attention to details of affinity and belonging.) It seems femininjas have lots of energy and support, so I say go for it, make it happen on your own terms. This is how the best of anything created from the grassroots has got started.


I am proposing some alternate solutions based on the criticism I hear. I folks would enter the discussion with open minds so we can find a way forward.  

Tamara, the very fact that you're here is not enough for a dialogue. Your words show that you continue to keep a closed mind and that you will never agree to allow transwomen to enter Lu's. Far from silencing you, we are dialoguing with you, pointing out where you err, where you distort the truth and where you misdirect and dodge. You are still trying hard to make us look like the bad guys Tamara. I'm calling you on it. Again.

We are not the ones using the silencing tactics, you are. We are not doing the bullying, you are. We are not the ones denying a group entry, you are.

Once again you bring up the fact that you consider transwomen to be not-women. Once again you offer an "alternative" where transwomen need not sully the presence of "real" women. Once again you Other us. Shame on you.

We cannot build an alliance when you are not open to us. Our message has always been of acceptance, openness and tolerance. Yours has been intolerance, misdirection, distortion and poorly camouflaged prejudice.

Not once have I called you a bigot, not once have I called you names, not once have I bullied or silenced you. Those are your words, used in an attempt to silence me, Tamara. Once again, shame on you.

You say that there are two sides to the argument and you call for open minds. Very well, Tamara, you need to open your mind and listen to our side. You have not done that, and your words here prove that you are not interested in doing that. So, open minds? You first.

Oh, by the way, We're Femininjas. Pay us the respect of getting our name right. 

Tamara,

Yes I agree that the Femininjas and trans activists are just as open to criticism as the VWHC is. I hope that the VWHC is as open to such critical dialogue as the Femininjas are.

The Transgender Health Program does not have a hospital behind it. We're still sending people all the way to Montreal to have gender reassignment surgery. Also, Qmunity was not aware of this issue until I contacted them on Wednesday.

The reason that people are not asked to stand in solidarity at mainstream pharmacies is that their discrimination is not part of their official policies, it is not formally institutionalized. It's the individual prejudices of some pharmacists. I'm sure that complaints are filed against individual pharmacists (it usually just takes a call from a lawyer to resolve the issue).

For us to be silent on this Lu's institutionalized policy is to condone the actions of those individual pharmacists. Just because their are AIDS groups does not mean that you can deny HIV+ persons entry to your pharmacy. Specialized care is just that: specialized care. When people have these additional needs, they seek out specialist services. Transwomen have the same needs as post-menopausal women. If you self-organized and felt an affinity with white supremacy, it would not be tolerated. In time, excluding transgendered people will be too. We are fighting for this... so that we to can "come a long way in creating and defending human rights laws in this country and elsewhere in the hopes of limiting discriminatory practices". This is very similar to the debate years ago about whether or not lesbian-identified women should be allowed into women-only spaces.

We ARE asking you to help make a trans-inclusive pharmacy happen, though not a trans-exclusive one. We just want to be recognized as equal (which we are) to ciswomen. All the pharmacy would need to do is fill the prescription written by a doctor. If you feel that you do not have the expertise to provide such a basic service to women, I'm sure that we can help provide training for your staff. Perhaps the VWHC should contact Qmunity and the THP to see if such a thing would be possible.

I too hope that we can engage in an extended dialogue and help resolve this issue. 

Here in Canada, we have more veterinary services than medical services for women. Women's issues are considered minority or "special interest" despite females accounting for 51% of the population. So, one can imagine how few services there are for trans people, who are even more ostracized and ignored as a minority and "special interest" group. We finally are seeing a change in society: attention to women's needs after centuries of society serving the needs of only men. Of course some of women's needs wer emet, but only if they applied to men as well and thus could be deemed "human" needs or interests (such as "human rights"). So why not hit two birds with one stone and provided facilities for females AND trans people (or in the case, simply all women--cis and trans)? As feminists, we must fight against patriarchy, which excludes the needs of women AND trans people (even transmen). It is patriarchy which has created such a strict definition of gender and sexuality that plagues most women, as well as members of the LGBT community, even if the women identify as heterosexual females. Including transwomen does not limit the accessibility to born-females, nor the special care and attention the pharmacy is trying to provide. Rather, it maintains a safe environment for those who are daily oppressed and sidelined in society: all women, females and transpeople. Transwomen do not have the male privilege and thus, their medical needs are sidelined even more than cis-gendered females. Including transwomen in the pharmacy would bring to the light even another group of people who are harmed by patriarchy and provide service for those who do not fit society's medical normal of male/men's needs. 

Why is Lu's the focus of this protest?

In *part* because the words and actions of Lu's: A Pharmacy for *Women* and the Vancouver *Women's* Health Collective state that after all that Transsexual and Intersexed women have risked, sacrificed and/or lost, and for all the marginalization they experience, they are not, and will never be who they say they are - i.e. *women.*

What actions state this? The sign on the door of Lu's says "for all women" and yet some women are not allowed in. The comments from some women within the VWHC (which I hope do not represent the majority). The policy of the VWHC and Lu's is hidden on their webpage (and unknown by many of their supporters).

If you want to understand the anger, think of how same-gender parents (and their children) or single parents (and their children, of whom I am one), or married couples with no children feel every time we see "family" defined as "one man and one woman plus kids."


Now imagine that a "family pharmacy" opens in a neighbourhood known for its high number of same-gender parents, single parents, and childless couples. Imagine that whenever local same-sex parents, single parents and childless couples enter, they are asked to leave because the clinic is for "natural families only."

Picture that?

Now go back through the words from Lu's and the VWHC and the defenders of the current policy, but substitute "families" for "women" and "natural families" for woman-born-women." (You can get a word program to do this automatically.)

Do you understand the problem now? Do you want to help change it?

www.femininjas.com 

"There are two sides to this story and I am asking for some space for the other side to be heard, free from attack."

The transphobes attack via discrimination, yet the transphobes feel they're being attacked. It seems as though they have been studying the American christianist extremist playbook.

The fake-feminist transphobe side has had the floor to itself since Janice Raymond, Mary Daly and Alix Dobkin were unjustifiably elevated to the status of 'legitimate' over three decades ago. That 'legitimacy' is a cancer - and should, in all instances, be treated as such. 

Those of you adamant about trans people being included in woman only space are acting/talking/blaming feminists from creating the category of women? What the? Have you noticed most of us want the category and the chains that come attached removed? Yah, we would be really happy if our gender could be ignored and overlooked and instead we be related to based on our humanity, ideas and aspirations. Could we get some metal cutters please! Do I really need to do a history lesson 101 here? Men invented and have benefited since from the assertion of gender and the subjugation of women that followed.  

MenstruatingDifferences says to transwomen: "But your internal struggle cannot compare to the real struggle biologically born females face from the day we are born."

Ha ha! Excuse me. That would be funny if this wasn't so serious. What struggle are you speaking of pray tell? The horror of realizing you have a penis where a vagina should be? Nope. Never had that struggle. The distress of having to pretend to be a man or risk being beaten up or assaulted for being a sissy? Nope. Never had that one. The devastation of losing your family and friends when they realize after all these years that you're not the son they thought you were? Nope. Haven't had that problem. The pain of being refused support by women's organizations even after having survived rape or spousal abuse? Nope. Haven't had that problem either.

Sorry, but as a cisgendered queer feminist, NOTHING in my struggle against sexism and NOTHING in my very intense struggle to accept myself as queer even comes close to what I can imagine it must be like to be trapped in the wrong body.

Own your privilage, MenstruatingDifferences. Whining that you're more oppressed than a transwoman makes you look like one of those men that whines that he's oppressed by affirmative action.  

Listening Ninja, you are obviously not a femininja.

Perhaps in an ideal world the dream of true equality will come true. Sadly we do not live in an ideal world and one of the imperfections of this world is that women need womens' space. The femininjas do not dispute this important fact. We applaud the presence of Lu's in the DTES; they will provide a valuable and needed service. There is only one thing wrong with Lu's concept and that is their transphobia, their cisprivilege-driven decision to deny all transpeoples' lived realities in favour of their ignorant assumptions about our gender. Transwomen are not men, never have been and never will be. No amount of transphobic propaganda will ever change this fact.

Queer Cis feminist, thank you. Your support counts for much.
However, the femininjas are not terribly interested in playing Oppression Olympics. That's one of the derailing tactics the transphobes love; they can spin out "who is more oppressed" forever until the original issue is long since forgotten amongst the flying insults.

What matters is not the quality of our oppression, nor the quantity but the fact that it's the Patriarchy that oppresses us all. We are all women together and need to work together, not apart. 

As a trans woman who is too tall to "pass", I'm acutely aware that I don't fit in anywhere. My existence makes people uncomfortable. I already know that in many ways my life - and my body - is not like that of a natal female. Being reminded just makes me feel like even more of a freak. I don't want to push my way into anywhere, for any reason. But if there's a place somewhere, where I can just -be-, well, I don't know where that is. Until then, I'll just keep trying to be as invisible as possible. 

@menstruatingdifferences

Um.... you use theold tired bullshit argument about how any woman not raised as one doesn't count, how we could never understand your oppression. There are three things I can say that shoot your argument down in flames.

1) We know we're girls from a very early age. Therefore we obsessively observe women growing up, how they live, how they act, and especially how they're treated, and we internalize all of it.

2) I was raped. Violently. Brutally. 18 years later I still bleed anally. Would you by your logic still refuse me counseling any other woman was entitled to because I have outdoor plumbing?

3) We're in North America, where women while still oppressed suffer the LEAST indignities of this entire planet. Women still suffer rape, discriminiation and spousal abuse yes.

But

How many WBW do you know who've been beaten to a pulp in an alley because you looked just a little too mannish? I have.

How many WBW are openly mocked and ridiculedin public if they aren't hyper feminine?

How many WBW do you know who have been brutally murdered because a horny pushy guy didn't like what he found after shoving his hand into their panties uninvited?

Women suffer at thehandsof men. We women suffer at the hands of men AND women born women.

And you REALLY have the gall and ignorance to say you feel for us while telling us we don't count as women because we can't understand oppression and being demeaned and marginalized?

That's like a black man telling a Mexican he couldn't possibly understand what racism feels like because the Mexican wasn't born black. 

I find it disheartening that in a city such as Vancouver Canada such a travesty is allowed to even begin. I also am not sure how that pharmacy would prove that a person who presents as female ISN'T.

Honestly were I to show up there, with a prescription in my name, and having my ID in my name, how the heck would they prove I am Trans? I certainly wouldn't submit to a genital or DNA exam simply to get my estrogen. Do members of the 'sponsoring group' have to show an ID card to prove that they are cisgendered women? By the time I am done all of my paper work my birth certificate and ALL of my other identifying documents will say female, so prove I wasn't born one. 

Medical discrimination shouldn't exist.. End of story.

Gender should be completely irrelevant on this issue.. And any issue for that matter.. Transgender people are human beings too.