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Makeup artist Raigen D’Angelo (left) and activist Jamie Lee Hamilton hold up a prescription that was refused by the staff of Lu’s: A Pharmacy for Women.
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PrintLu's Pharmacy rejects transgender customer
A Vancouver transgender activist says that the pharmacy owned by the Vancouver Women’s Health Collective has refused to fill her prescription. Jamie Lee Hamilton told the Georgia Straight on July 14 that Lu’s: A Pharmacy for Women denied her service because she wasn’t born female.
“I’m a member of the Downtown Eastside, a long-time resident,” Hamilton said. “I should be able to access my community pharmacy.”
According to Hamilton, the collective’s executive director, Caryn Duncan, explained that the pharmacy won’t serve male-to-female transgender people. Hamilton said she told Duncan that this policy is discriminatory. “She then said, ‘No, you have to be born female,’ ” Hamilton claimed.
In a July 15 phone interview with the Straight, Duncan said she told Hamilton that the collective is committed to its original vision for the pharmacy and its other services, which is to work with “women born women”. Duncan said that the organization has specialized in meeting the health needs of these women for more than 40 years.
“It is how we would like to continue to approach the work that we are providing women,” Duncan said.
She added that she isn’t sure that she would describe what happened as “refusing her service”, and claimed that Hamilton tried to force her way inside. Duncan also said she feels “very overwhelmed” by the pressure she’s received to provide service to transgender women.
“I have felt that people are employing intimidation tactics, and it’s hurtful to me personally,” she said. “As I said to Jamie Lee Hamilton, we want to help women here. We want to focus on the work that we do that’s very important to us and to the women who want to use our services. That’s where I want to put my energy.”
Hamilton described her efforts to obtain service at Lu’s pharmacy as a “watershed event” in the attempt to advance the rights of transgender women in Canada. At a July 11 protest outside the pharmacy, transgender activist Elizabeth Marston claimed that Lu’s policy would discriminate against some of the most vulnerable women in the neighbourhood.
Duncan characterized her actions as “generous” and “thoughtful”, emphasizing that she is willing to talk to Hamilton and her supporters about how to create a pharmacy for transgender women and their supporters.
Moreover, Duncan said she informed Hamilton of a pharmacy a couple of blocks away that would provide adequate care. “She mentioned she wanted to access the services of a community pharmacy,” Duncan said. “I shared with her that Reach [Community Health Centre] has a community pharmacy that’s trans-inclusive, and encouraged her to go to the Reach pharmacy on the Drive.”
According to Hamilton, Duncan told her that Lu’s pharmacy will serve transgender men who were born female. “It’s an ideology that’s really, really bizarre,” Hamilton said.
When asked about this, Duncan responded: “We will serve all women born women.”
Duncan and Hamilton will meet on Thursday (July 16). Hamilton said she will await the outcome of that conversation before deciding whether to file a complaint with the College of Pharmacists of B.C. The college’s code of ethics states that pharmacists must not be prejudiced by “factors such as the patient’s race, religion, ethnic origin, social or marital status, gender, sexual orientation, age, or health status”.
In a previous interview with the Straight, on July 8, Duncan said the collective decided to create a female-only pharmacy after it lost provincial funding in 2004 and Vancouver Coastal Health Authority funding in 2005. The collective secured a $10,000 grant from Enterprising Non-profits to write a business plan.
“There have been hundreds of people involved in realizing this dream: organizations, corporations, individuals,” Duncan said. “The support for the project has been phenomenal both in donated labour, lots of volunteerism, and donated materials.”
Comments
Hopefully at our meeting tomorrow Ms Duncan will reverse the discriminatory policy in place at Lu's.
Jamie Lee
Am I the only one who thinks Jamie Lynn is a blowhard? Really? There's nothing better to be fighting against. This pharmacy has already lost so much funding that it sounds like the only way for them to keep funding is to provide the service they are providing currently. Strap on those high heels and walk to the couple extra blocks and focus on something that's really worth fighting for. If you don't like the service provided, go somewhere else.
First off, transwomen ARE women who want to use your services.
Secondly, I'm sorry that she feels hurt on a personal level. I honestly am. She has invested a great deal of time and energy into Lu's. However, regardless much time it took collectively to put Lu's Pharmacy together, transfolk have clocked more hours working on being recognized in our correct gender in the first place, including in pharmacies. It is extremely hurtful to the trans community, and to me personally, that Lu's refuses to recognize me as what I am, and to sum me up by my biology and/or my childhood experiences.
Thirdly, I would hope that Duncan, the rest of the VWHC and Lu's are open to alternate points of view and are willing to speak to the many diverse people and groups of the trans community with an open mind. It's not intimidation to state one's point of view in a peaceful way, it's just a point of view. Another example of a point of view is how she claims that her views on transwomen do not quality as transmisogyny.
I would also like to touch on the fact that Duncan says that Lu's will be providing services transmen (female-to-male transgendered persons) is inconsistent with the policy of the VWHC who run Lu's. The VWHC states that they help women who were born women and live their lives as women. Transmen do not live their lives as women. This is also disrespectful to transmen as identify and live as men, and wish to be treated as men. This underscores the essentialist attitude of the WBW Only policy at Lu's Pharmacy and its philosophy of biological determinism.
A difference of opinion on a single policy does not mean that we dislike Lu's as a whole. Many transwomen support Lu's, just not one the policy.
treatment, it is a free country go somewhere else. I have been discriminated against countless times, but I refuse to let it consume my life..... Protest this boycott that life sucks to be people who live their lives always feeling shortchanged. By the way I love all people gay straight all races mixed genders love all people....
I believe that woman only space is necessary for women to seek peer help and gain strength to enable them to resist sexist oppression, in an otherwise male dominated world. In a world where women only spaces are harder and harder to find, I am gladdened to hear about the new Women only Pharmacy in Vancouver, and thank the Vancouver Women’s Health collective for the good work they do.
I see woman only health care centers as one type of woman only space, one that provides women who were born female and socialized into womanhood a specialized health care service based upon the gendered health care needs, needs that differ from men and trans gendered people.
I support a woman only pharmacy, because it is a woman only space, as it is feminist resistance against the historically patriarchal models of health care, so commonly accepted and promoted in western industrialized nations.
I believe that the creation of a woman only space does not reduce the quality of care in other mixed gendered health care spaces, nor is it an impediment to men and trans-gendered people to access health services elsewhere. In fact, I believe that Lu's existence lessens the wait time in those other types of pharmacies, and could even improve quality of healthcare for all.
Women who were born female and socialized into womanhood ought to have the right to access woman only spaces for their own issues, and have the ability to access woman delivered health care, with a peer to peer approach. In no way does this infringe upon trans-gendered rights to seek medical attention, nor inhibit their right to build their own peer to peer health care elsewhere. There is nothing in what the Vancouver Women's Health collective's Women Only Pharmacy is doing that is stopping trans-gendered persons only groups to have their own specialized and improved medical services. And lastly, I believe trans-gendered peoples energy would be better spent in creating peer based services for their own unique lived experiences of oppression, rather than attacking a women only health care service provider.
I do, however, think that Jamie Lee Hamilton needs to tone it down a bit and get some more people involved. This fight runs the risk of turning people against full inclusion, as she can make it seem like a personal vendetta. Through herr recent overexposure, she comes across (to me and others that I have spoken with) as focused primarily on self-publicity with the issue coming second.
This is an important human-rights issue and it would be a shame for this discrimination to continue because of the simple pollution of the argument by Hamilton's over-courting of the media.
I beg to differ how a womyn's only pharmacy is any more enlightened that say, for example, an old boys golf club - both stink!
Sincerely, Someone from the male gender who considers himself a feminist.....but a person 1st, hence, a 1st class citizen - just as trans women are 1st, not 2nd, class citizens. Same goes for alll persons...
I identify as an idealist and as an equalitarian. It may be more long winded than the word feminist, but I don't like to use a label that is shared by some who would advocate "women only spaces" and find objection to "men only spaces". Granted, I'm not sure of any one of yals views toward this segregation, but I'm, personally, as a woman, appalled by it. You know why? Because a few decades ago, in America (where I live), there were "white only spaces" where white people, such as myself, could hold "power" and oppress those "weaker than us". It was a direct result of fear and of an ego the size of our planet.
Since then, "white only spaces" have been called out as they are, discriminatory and used to promote segregation. Although I agree in the notion of "women only spaces", I disagree with the implementation. Segregating two groups doesn't decrease any animosity between the two groups, and usually only increases it (no one likes being told they can’t use a service that someone else can). Additionally, individuals that don’t fit into one of the nicely packaged groups, in this case transsexuals, are left in the cold, where our feelings are ignored “for the greater good”.
Treating a transwoman like a man or treating a transman like a woman, is the simplest case of transmisogyny – it’s breaking the “golden rule”. The medical community acknowledges that transsexuality isn’t a mental illness – that we are not insane. In fact, quite the opposite, the recommended course of action is for the individual to align their body with their gender identity – NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. So, by referring to me as a man just because I was born so, isn’t treating me like you would like to be treated – unless you like other people telling you who you are. Personally, I’m quite capable of telling others who I am, and when I do, I would hope that they respected "who I am", instead of "who they want me to be".
"Women only space", say "only some women space". Saying women with a transsexual past are not women like it is done hear by insisting that a "women only space" is simpley saying they are not women, which is a lie.
Because they'e not *real* human women, and besides which, they have problems with sickle-cell anemia and other congenital problems that the pharmacists aren't trained to deal with. Not that that's racist or anything. Oh, but they will serve men, as long as they're White. Because being raised white is essential to being a real woman, you see.
The logic is the same: so is the bigotry.
Caryn has chosen to present herself as a victim of the patriarchy, and chooses to include transwomen as a subset of the patriarchy. She very clearly tells the world that transwomen are not women in her mind, and that she is never going to allow transwomen in with the "real" women.
She is trying to force all women into one mould, one set of experiences. and claim that what she experienced while growing up is the only authentic way women can grow up. She is trying to say "I know more about your reality than you do because I'm more "real" than you are. I'm entitled to define your life for you and you do not meet my criteria for what a woman is so I will guard my precious women only space from you "fake" women. Now go away and leave us "real" women alone."
She feels this so strongly that last Saturday she decided to deny service to all women rather than risk having transwomen in her precious space.
Caryn needs to join the 21st Century where the rest of us are living and realise that not all women have the same history, that there are as many paths to the reality of being a woman as there are women and that transwomen, contrary to her propaganda, are just as much women as she is.
I support the idea of Lu's Pharmacy. They are providing a much needed service and they need to keep on providing that service. They just need to make one small change to how they provide that service; they need to make their discrimination a thing of the dead, dusty past. They need to move into the bright future of inclusion, openness, compassion and caring, things that Caryn could use a lot more of in this case.
Putting that at the end of a comment where you tell a marginalized group to, essentially, shut up and move on doesn't make you any less bigoted against them.
Caryn, separate-but-equal might have been a reasonable philosophy in 1960, but it is 2009. No other women's group (except for VRR) discriminates against trans women in the DTES. When I talk to Executive Directors of other organizations they're appalled at the policies of VWHC.
“I have felt that people are employing intimidation tactics"
Demanding equal rights is not intimidating you personally. It is how every marginalized group has done it, including the cisgender (aka non-trans) women's movement. This kind of comment is meant to dodge responsibility and instead frame trans women as aggressors and hopes to play on cultural transphobia. It is an old trick, I've seen it before, and it is a distraction that does not address the issue.
Lu's, a self-styled "pharmacy for women," is LESS inclusive than Walgreen's, and that is a sad and depressing reality.
Beth
I'm a man, look stereotypically male, and have a beard. I walk into this women's pharmacy tell the pharmacist that really I was born female. You're trying to tell me that this kind of a policy helps protect women's spaces, because somehow YOU know best that I'm NOT REALLY A MAN?
It's not up to you to decide who is a woman, actually.
That's what it comes down to.
We are talking about women's health! and although gender is only partly biological, at a health center of any kind, bioligy seems faily important. In fact, it follows that trans people require specilized health care because of hormone treatments, surgery, medical diagnosis and other helath related issues of transitioning.
The Women's Health Collective has a rich and useful herstory fighting for women's equality and autonmomy. The pharmacy has not been given a chance to demonstrate how it could function to its full potential. But I have to say, I would rather go to a women only pharmacy when getting my herpes medication or when getting antibiotics for a yeast infection.
I support everything that Lu's and Ms. Duncan are doing and feel that the protests and attacks against the pharmacy are only serving to disempower and further oppress women.
Beth
What's ridiculous is using a scene from a movie, in a culture in which is is still acceptable to make trans women into the punchlines of jokes, to try to make a point that our arguments shouldn't be heard.
"In fact, it follows that trans people require specilized health care because of hormone treatments, surgery, medical diagnosis and other helath related issues of transitioning."
I didn't have my surgery in a pharmacy, just thought I'd mention that. As far as the complex hormone treatments? Will Lu's not be serving post-menopausal women who take HRT, because of that complex requirement of dispensing pills into a bottle?
To the "women born women" crowd... I have to wonder... do you have "white women born white women" spaces too? How about "able bodied women born able bodied"? I'd hate to see what happens when a young girl in a wheelchair tries to access those clubs!
Women who are trans, they were born women too. Just because of their alternative anatomy... you are not superior.
Even my feminist parents agree... there's no room for discrimination when you're looking to break down oppression and assist your sisters in accessing medical treatment.
Nobody disputes VWHC's role and what they have done. Equally, the only people preventing the pharmacy from living up to its potential are the people who chose to restrict transwomen from using it. You are using the already discredited tactic of conflating a pharmacy with a health clinic. Transpeople do nto come to a pharmacy for treatment and transitional advice, we come to pick up medications. Stop trying to twist the situation to suit your prejudices.
Meghan, you are failing to acknowledge that despite our bodies, transwomen are women. We are not and never have been men despite our bodies. Your words show that you have a deep anger towards males. You make the mistake in including your fellow women within their number. We have no male sense of entitlement to bring to this situation. This contrasts with your very evident Cis(not-trans)-entitlement that you feel allows you to define my sex and my gender for me without my consent. How does this make you any different from those entitled men you rant about?
Believe it or not, I too support Lu's in everything they're doing except for one small thing: Discriminating against my trans sisters and me. I am a woman and you cannot wish that away no matter how many times you try it.
Because really, I have a uterus. I bleed once a month. I have breasts. I have ovaries. This makes me a woman, right?
What about a dear late friend of mine? She struggled with ovarian and cervical cancer and had to have a full hystorectamy. No more uterus and ovaries for her. After they removed her uterus and ovaries, she got better for a while, but they discovered that the cancer had spread to other parts of her body, including both breasts. Double mastectomy - Linda had no breasts anymore.
Her hair fell out from the cancer treatments, so she couldn't wave it around like those herbal essences commercials.
Anatomically speaking, she no longer had the necessary equipment to be considered a woman in our society.
So how are we defining women?
It doesn't make any sense to me to define someone's gender based solely on their anatomy.
I understand that not all of society has caught up with the idea of gender rather than sex, and it is a reality that heterosexual cisgendered caucasian men have a lot more privilege than their female or transgendered or homosexual or darker-skinned or disabled etc.etc.etc. counterparts.
And because of that, the idea of a Women-only pharmacy in the DTES is FANTASTIC. But this pharmacy doesn't take into account any of the exceptional cases, thus it is feeding that patriarchal bigotry, but turning it into a matriarchy.
Transwomen ARE women. Just because they're not the female version of that coveted hetero-cisgendered-caucasian male doesn't make them any less women.
I hope Ms. Duncan does feel pressured, because she is doing the wrong thing. Her reaction reminds me of chauvinism. She should educate herself and listen to the experiences of transgendered people. If she is uncomfortable with asking people directly about how they experience gender in ways different from her own experiences, there are many people who post diaries of their transitioning and life experiences on Youtube, write blogs, books, create movies and even reality tv shows. There's a lot of information out there, so please, Ms. Duncan, if you are reading this (or if you are a friend or colleague of hers), take the time to listen to people and consider what they have to say.
I think if Ms. Duncan is able to listen to people and understand their perspectives, in the future she won't determine gender based only on physical sex at birth, and will not propagate the wrong idea that trans women are not really women, but trans men are, completely ignoring the lived experiences and agency and identity of transgendered people. I really wonder how someone who claims to be a feminist, which in my definition is someone who advocates for gender equality and challenging sexism and discrimination, can herself hold views about gender that are so sexist.
Caryn Duncan, please take this as an opportunity to learn from the many human beings and feminists who are asking you not to discriminate against any women but to advocate for ALL women and women's health. There is no need to exclude anyone based on the many diverse categories women belong to, whether it's race, sexual orientation, class, or trans/cisgender. I say this as a woman-born-woman who was socially raised a woman or whatever the Lu's Pharmacy standard is. First of all, it's not for me to open up spaces for transgendered women, they belong there to start out with, but I will support any women being discriminated against as a feminist and support safe spaces, for all women. Second, there is room for us all to have our needs addressed as women: diversity is a strength, not a threat. Third, hello, Lu's is a pharmacy, you don't have to perform sexual reassignment surgery, just dispense medications and sell vitamins.
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I am writing in support of White only space. By this I mean spaces reserved for whites (defined as those persons who are born white and raised into their current whitehood). This experience is unique to whites and shared by whites, and this experience is the root of a number of oppressions put upon whites within ethnic dominated society.
I believe that whites only space is necessary for whites to seek peer help and gain strength to enable them to resist racist oppression, in an otherwise ethnic dominated world. In a world where whites only spaces are harder and harder to find, I am gladdened to hear about the new Whites only Pharmacy in Vancouver, and thank the Vancouver White’s Health collective for the good work they do.
I see white only health care centers as one type of white only space, one that provides whites who were born white and socialized into whitehood a specialized health care service based upon the racial health care needs, needs that differ from ethnic and racially-vague people.
I support a white only pharmacy, because it is a white only space, as it is white resistance against the historically diverse models of health care, so commonly accepted and promoted in western industrialized nations.
I believe that the creation of a white only space does not reduce the quality of care in other mixed race health care spaces, nor is it an impediment to ethnic and racially-vague people to access health services elsewhere. In fact, I believe that Lu's existence lessens the wait time in those other types of pharmacies, and could even improve quality of healthcare for all.
Whites who were born white and socialized into whitehood ought to have the right to access white only spaces for their own issues, and have the ability to access white delivered health care, with a peer to peer approach. In no way does this infringe upon racially-vague rights to seek medical attention, nor inhibit their right to build their own peer to peer health care elsewhere. There is nothing in what the Vancouver White's Health collective's Whites Only Pharmacy is doing that is stopping racially-vague persons only groups to have their own specialized and improved medical services. And lastly, I believe racially-vague peoples energy would be better spent in creating peer based services for their own unique lived experiences of oppression, rather than attacking a white only health care service provider.
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You're welcome.
anonymous-t-girl.blogspot.com
*rolls eyes*
How many people here would say that I'm less of a woman because of my small chest? How about the size of my feet? Those are as "biological" as the size of my genitals.
Apparently not, because they don't bleed anymore and that's what makes a woman according to Caryn.
Define a woman! Do they do a genetics test on every customer? What about genetically male individuals who have Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome and appear female and have been brought up from birth as female? That's just one of the many intersexed conditions that could break the rule. What about passable trans-women. Are they going to turn anyone away for a prescription for HRT? Is there a 'passing' test. I.e. do you have look, sound, appear female enough not to be thought of as trans? What about women who look trans?
I transitioned at University and built my career as a woman. I had my surgery in the 90s. I had male testoterone levels for only a small percentage of my life. I'm now in my 40s. I'm a British Citizen with a female birth certificate. I'm biologically no different from any cis-woman who has had a radical hysterectomy and I am on exactly the same medication as one. Would they turn me away? How would they prove I'm trans? Would I have to lay on my back while they get the speculum out? Again it comes back to what happens to women who may look a bit male.
The reality is that women born women not only disrespects trans-women but disrespects trans-men. I have male friends who would strongly object to being considered female in the eyes of a radical second wave feminist. The reality is I suffer the same misogyny as any cis-woman. 99.9% of the population of this planet have no inkling of my past so I'm treated the same as any cis-woman with all the same bigotries, the same risks of rape, the same glass ceiling in my career. This morning I had a long discussion about why there are so few women in the IT profession. We should be allies.
It seems a certain type of feminist wants to have their cake and eat it. They want to argue that gender is a construct whilst keeping 'women born women' spaces. They want to argue that wbw need safe spaces away from men whilst using their cis privilege exactly the same as the way they accuse men of using their male privilege. I agree I did not have a typical female upbringing. I didn't have a male one either. I spent the whole of my childhood with society bringing in to sharp relief my position, my pain.
So if you want to persist with your arbitrary distinctions then fine. But don't complain when you're shut out in the same way. Personally I say, move over grandma, the next wave is on it way!
PS. I don't own a pair of heels. I do however own four pairs of New Rock Boots (http://www.whichshoes.co.uk/new-rock-boots/) ride a motorcycle, and go climbing and canyoneering with my women friends.
http://www,cyberspice.org.uk/blog
Isabel’s corollary 1: Anatomical parts and pieces, on their own, are neither sufficient nor necessary characteristics in the determination of sex and/or gender.
A simple survey of the scientific literature shows without a doubt that there is no such thing as a perfectly binary definition of gender or sex. Our societal definitions of gender/sex as female and male are just constructs, useful as everyday indicators, but excessively often used as cages to restrict benefits/activities/rights/duties from one group and/or to keep individuals from belonging to a perceived “elite” group (read gender). Below is a partial compendium of the incredibly varied and complex nature of human gender. This is just what is presently known, and is in all probability just the tip of the iceberg insofar as these are based mostly on parameters that scientists have been able to measure in one way or another, visually, or with the help of modern day instrumentation and technical advances. At present, acquisition of many of these parameters is limited by the inability to measure below picogram (and in many cases below microgram) levels many of the factors associated with gender/sexual dimorphism. Doubtless, there might exist many factors that are active at the sub-picogram levels of which we know nothing. Add to this the fact that almost nothing is known of what parameters affect the brain’s gender/sex dimorphism. It then becomes readily apparent that the only person that can conceivably know to what gender/sex they belong is her-/him-/it-self (just as happens with sexual preference). Likewise, the only person that can conceivably have ANY RIGHT to decide to what gender they belong is that person her-/him-/it-self (again, just as happens with sexual preference).
46, XX people may be born with ovaries, testes, both ovaries and testes, neither ovaries nor testes, or organs that are a combination of both ovaries and testes (ovotestes). Again, they might or might not have ovaries. They might have one ovary, two ovaries, or more. They might or might not have fallopian tubes. They might have a fallopian tube, two, or more. They might or might not have a uterus. They might have a uterus or more than one. They might or might not have a cervix. They might have one or more than one cervix. They might or might not have a vagina. They might have one or more than one vagina. They may have testes or ovotestes. They may have labia or scrotal sacs, or something in between. They may have a clitoris or a penis, neither, or a structure in between. They might or might not menstruate. Upon puberty, breasts may or may not develop. They might or might not be able to become pregnant. They might or might not be able to give childbirth. They might be raised as either “females” or as “males”. Just about any combination of any of the above factors is possible.
(cont.)
46, XY people may be born ovaries, testes, both ovaries and testes, neither ovaries nor testes, or organs that are a combination of both ovaries and testes (ovotestes). They might or might not have fallopian tubes. They might or might not have a uterus. They might or might not have a cervix. They might or might not have a vagina. They may have labia or scrotal sacs, or something in between. They may have a clitoris or a penis, neither, or a structure in between. They might or might not menstruate. Upon puberty, breasts may or may not develop. They might or might not be able to become pregnant. They might or might not be able to give childbirth. They might be raised as either “females” or as “males”. Just about any combination of any of the above factors is possible.
As for hormones, the overlap between the amounts present among the combined population is usually greater than the non-overlapping areas of the statistical end-points of said population. The same could be said for societal constraints, both in a geographic/cultural sense and from a historical perspective.
(By the way, XXY people are “considered” to be “males”; where would they go?)
References for most of the above comments (notable exception being Isabel’s corollary) available upon request. ?
As for my opinion on the "experience" of growing under the auspices of one or the other gender: I find it utterly ludicrous, in view of the above facts, that the babies, the little girls and boys, and the young teenagers, who were born with bodies not representative of their gender but were forced to live by (and sometimes killed for not living by) a set of societal norms they probably abhorred (sometimes to the point of feeling suicide was the only way out), are now persecuted by those who profess to be fighting injustice.
But I guess the best way to feel good about yourself is to find a group of people you can perceive as being "unworthy" of the same rights/benefits/privileges you enjoy? even better is if you can find mechanisms by which to enforce those rights/benefits/privileges, eh?
Interestingly a new generation is coming where our trans-brothers and sisters are being raised by understanding and caring parents into the genders wherein they themselves know they belong.... I guess you need to start thinking now on how you will best be able to marginalize them?
"I am writing in support of People of Colour only space. By this I mean spaces reserved for people of colour (defined as those persons who are born as people of colour and live in a racist culture). This experience is unique to people of colour and shared by us, and this experience is the root of a number of oppressions within a racist society.
I believe that exclusionary space for people of colour is necessary for us to seek peer help and gain strength to enable us to resist racist oppression, in an otherwise white dominated world. In a world where people of colour only spaces are harder and harder to find, I am gladdened to hear about the new People of Colour only Pharmacy in Vancouver, and thank the Vancouver People of Colour Health collective for the good work they do".
Etcetera.
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Keep up the good work, VWHC. It will be hard. You are being personally insulted, called names, attacked, vilified, not listened to, told that your position is not valid, that you are a transphobe. No matter that you are not a transphobe, that you simply are insisting on the right to group with other women in a society that - regardless of biology, regardless of queer theory, regardless of postmoderism, regardles of how much we WANT gender inequality to no longer exist - STILL views and treats people as either male or female, and assigns them power according to which category they fall into.
VWHC's position is the same as that of a second stage house who recently legally refused a man employment, and as that of a Native organization who recently refuse a job to a white man. Both were sued for discrimination. Both won. We ARE allowed to group with those who share our oppression - our experience as people who were born, treated, and raised as women in a patriarchal society. Sometimes, all we have in the world that's worth anything is each other.
Please understand - it's actually NOT about YOU. It's not personal. It's not a phobia. It is an act that we strongly believe is a basic human right. And we hope that you will do the same - group with the people that share your experience. And allow us to have at least that.
Caryn and the VWHC - we're with you. THANK YOU. This matters.
it's a lot easier to get angry about what other people are doing wrong than it is to actually go out and do something right yourself. If you are opposed to a pharmacy that excludes certain people, don't go there. Applaud and frequent the pharmacies that *do* include you. Start a Health Collective of your own that operates with the rules you like.
if you want something done the way you think it should be done, go do it. Don't just bitch about how others are doing it wrong.
Your problem with men is yours alone. It is not transwomen's job to sacrifice their equality and their right to be treated with dignity in order to cater to your neuroses.
Discomfort has never been an acceptable defense against discrimination. Men, white people, Christians, you name it, all feel more comfortable when there's nobody different around to challenge their prejudices. That's no excuse for being exclusionary. That's just life. Grow up and get used to it.
You have said nothing that VWHC hasn't said already. You have not advanced this discussion, you have merely repeated the discrimination that started this whole mess.
Where did you get the idea that we oppose Lu's and what they're doing? Where did you get the idea that we're your enemies to be fought? We do not oppose Lu's, we do not oppose women's space. The only thing we're doing is educating VWHC that they are discriminating against a class of women and therefore damaging their credibility and the cause of Feminism. That's the only thing we want to see change.
You, like Caryn are trying to position us as the bad guys, You, like Caryn accuse us of calling names, insulting, attacking, villifying and not listening to you. You, like Caryn are wrong. As a matter of fact, you are exactly 180 degrees out of true here, anon. All those things have happened from VWHC and their supporters to us, not the other way around. Throughout this entire process the Femininjas have carried a message of equality, openness, inclusiveness and caring. There is no room in our ideology for attacks and villifying. What you choose to interpret as attacks and villifying is the one thing oppressors fear above all else: truth.
The truth is, VWHC has chosen to oppress transpeople, chosen to disrespect our identity and to impose their own interpretation of our lives upon us. Caryn claims that they had long discussions about their choice not to serve transwomen. Tell me, did they even once ever consider actually asking a transwoman about it? No, they did not. They chose to assert their privilege over us in exactly the same manner that the Patriarchy exerts its privilege over all women. They used the oppressor's tactics to in turn oppress a still less powerful group. How then does this make VWHC any different from the patriarchy it claims to oppose but instead emulates?
You say ...It is an act that we strongly believe is a basic human right. as if that magically gives you the right to take away someone else's basic human rights. Right there you show your cisprivielege for what it is. Right there is where you oppress us. Right there is where you become the moral equivalent of the Patriarchy. Right there is where you're wrong.
This is what we're showing you, and the rest of the world. If you feel that's an attack, then perhaps you need rethink a few things.
Me and my sister grew up in the same house, we went to the same schools, and wore the same clothes.
She wore her hair short, and played football with our dad, joined a youth team and enjoyed watching wrestling, and rode her bike everywhere. She was allowed out late with her friends.
I grew my hair long, almost always had at least one book on the go, wasn't allowed out late, was told I couldn't take my bike out of the street where we lived, and was warned about talking to strangers. I was taught to fear cars pulling up beside me, and to always kick for the crotch if I was grabbed.
Which is the true "wbw" experience?
Is either of us trans because of our experiences?
And as for serving Trans men because they were born women, and calling them women... no. That's disrespectful to say the very least and not to mention a double standard.
Has no one taught this Caryn, or the countless others who claim 'women's spaces should be for those born with female genitalia only' that bigotry comes in more forms than racism? Personally I'd rather use a women's facility that allows ALL women access rather than just those born with the 'right' equipment between their legs.
As a trans woman, I would prefer to create a pharmacy that serves all women without discrimination. A safe space for any woman identified woman. It can coexist with Lu's, perhaps in an area of the city not served by Lu's. Ideally, and with enough time, any discomfiture with transwomen will be washed away with a newly broadened familiarity of sisterhood.
All that creating a pharmacy for transgender women would do is ghettoize trans-women further. None of us want to be separated from other women. We want to help the world become a better place for women; which won't happen in ghetto.
What makes a woman? If a woman is no more than her biological function than... does Lu's admit sterile women? Intersexed women? Women born with malformed ovaries? Women born without eggs? What about women born without complete vaginas? What about women who have had hysterectomies? These women cannot reproduce or undergo a "woman born woman" experience. Are they allowed in? It is unfair of her to draw the line.
Transmen can be just as misogynistic as the rest of the male population. Admitting them is ridiculous.
Transphobia at it's finest and with the most pathetic justification applied.
She was very clear with me on the phone yesterday that Lu's would serve both transsexual & transgendered men who "pass" as men in the world. MEN. To be specific, i asked her clearly if Lu's serves & would serve Female to Male transsexual & transgendered men, and whether it was dependent on whether or not someone "passes" as male, using myself as an example. She said "yes [they] would serve FTMs. That is included in the body of work". She went on to say "it could be awkward, it causes complications" [the passing & potentially different body of said FTM], "but we would want to have a conversation about about how we could help that person or where we could direct them if there were things we weren't sure about. But if an FTM came in to deal with god forbid cervical cancer for example, we would want to help them figure out what can be done."
So a woman with breast cancer can't get a prescription filled at Lu's simply because she's trans; but a man with cervical cancer can go in & access detailed health services in addition to the many prescriptions i'm sure he'd be allowed to fill because (despite his self-&-possibly-state-sealed-and-approved identity as a man, and because he has an assumed vagina) Lu's sees him as a woman? Is that it? How very strange.
Personally i fully 100% support a woman-only space such as Lu's, but one that includes all women regardless what they've got in their knickers, & does not include men, regardless what they've got in theirs. Otherwise, it's not a women-only space, even in the most basic sense.
Seems to me some clarity is required. Perhaps you can share with Caryn your interpretation of women-only space as "defined as those persons who are born female & raised into their current womanhood"? Because she doesn't seem to share it publicly at least.
However, they would not fill an antibiotic prescription for a woman who has identified as such her entire life, who has worn dresses since a young age, who has attended school as a girl, who has breasts and a vagina, and who is legally female - not if for the first 3 or so years of her life, people thought she was a boy, not if she had to live with her penis till her teens. Believe it or not, some trans women go through that experience. Considering the diversity of women's experiences, how could someone like that not fit in? How is denying her womanhood anything but transphobia?
Of course there are trans women who were not so fortunate as to transition so early. They, too, need a pharmacy that will address their needs. They, too, are women, and thus should be welcomed into women's only spaces.
As for trans men like me, we do not belong. Please do not cater to our needs unless you intend to serve cissexual men as well.
Most of my trans girl friends are more woman than fellow lesbian women, and some trans men I met definitely are men, for both thans men and women, that is not determined by what they have in their pants.
As I wrote on an earlier article about this:
Then about the stance of the Pharmacy; this is pure and blatant discrimination based on prejudice and as such simply bigotry!
ANY pharmacy where they know how to do their job, can give full service to ALL women, either cis or trans!
“I have felt that people are employing intimidation tactics, and it’s hurtful to me personally,”
It's pretty simple if you act like a transphobe and discriminate, you're going to get called out for it, it probably won't be a "calm dialogue" because you just hasseled a woman who already faces rampant discrimination for being trans. Cry me a river you transphob, for ages bigots have tried to paint themselves as the victims. A clinic for woman should have no problem filling a persciprtion for a trans woman and to imply that infrings on it being a "safe space" is bullshit. Harsh ideas of gender binary are what perpetrate women's oppression and violence against women in the first place. To be pro woman, you have to be for all women including those in the trans community.
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