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Fight looms over Fish Lake

Taseko Mines has proposed turning Fish Lake, which is 125 kilometres southwest of Williams Lake, into an impoundment reservoir for toxic mine-waste rock. Opponents claim that the company’s mining project will kill up to 85,000 rainbow trout.

By Andrew Findlay,

Mining firm promises a new lake, but Native leader says that's the Creator's job.

Sport fishers can get slapped by the law for netting a single fish over the limit, yet a large Vancouver-based mining company is proposing to destroy a lake and the tens of thousands of trout that inhabit it. Resource-extraction projects like the proposed Prosperity Mine 125 kilometres southwest of Williams Lake are breathtaking in their scope and scale. Vancouver-based Taseko Mines says opening up this massive ore body with estimated reserves of 5.3 billion pounds of copper and 13.3 million ounces of gold will require a capital outlay of some $800 million. Over its expected 20-year life span, Prosperity would cost $4 billion to operate and would generate 6,800 man-years of employment and a multibillion-dollar windfall in corporate taxes for the federal and provincial governments.

However, the potential environmental and attendant socioeconomic impacts of Prosperity are equally breathtaking. Most controversial are Taseko's plans to turn Fish Lake—known to the Tsilhqot'in First Nations as Teztan Biny and home to an endemic population of an estimated 85,000 rainbow trout—into a giant impoundment reservoir for toxic mine-waste rock, altering the hydrology and ecosystem of the entire watershed along the way. Fish Lake happens to lie within the watershed of the Taseko River, a major salmon-bearing tributary of the Fraser River system via the Chilko and Chilcotin rivers, raising serious concern about the mine's possible downstream impacts on salmon habitat. A complicated plan to create compensating fish habitat—including an artificial lake called Prosperity—and deal with mine waste is detailed in a March 17, 2009, 3,000-page environmental-impact statement, a document that is at the centre of tandem federal and provincial environmental assessments currently under way.

The proposal is causing a familiar divide among the local populace. The City of Williams Lake and the regional economy have been hit hard by the mountain pine beetle and sagging softwood-lumber markets, and many citizens and business owners are glassy-eyed over the spending and jobs the mine would bring. Others, among them environmentalists and First Nations, fear that ecosystems will suffer long-term damage for relatively short-term gain. So the question being asked by many is this: are the dizzying economic gains of the Prosperity Mine worth the social and environmental risks?

Bernie Elkins, chief of the Alexandria First Nation near Quesnel, doesn't think so. Elkins is Prosperity project director for the Tsilhqot'in National Government, which represents five nations in the region. He says the TNG can't accept the destruction of a lake that supports a healthy population of fish and is culturally significant to his people.

“I find it insulting,” Elkins says about Taseko's plans to make a replacement body of water called Prosperity Lake. “We feel the Creator is the only one who makes lakes.”

Elkins admits that some members of his community would probably welcome the chance to work at the mine, and he emphasizes that the TNG is not antimining. Taseko operates the Gibraltar Mine, a copper-and-molybdenum property within Alexandria First Nation territory, and Elkins says that his council has worked cooperatively with mine management, even giving its assent to a plan to discharge mining effluent into the Fraser River providing it's kept to levels that don't impact the fishery.

First Nations also have issues with the environmental-assessment process. According to Elkins, any decision-making system for large projects like Prosperity that neither recognizes the need for meaningful consultation and accommodation of First Nations rights—rights that have been well affirmed in B.C. and federal courts—nor allows adequate time for public input and full consideration of the long-term impacts is critically flawed. That's why the TNG decided to boycott the provincial environmental assessment, claiming that the process fails to fully consider cumulative environmental and social impacts.

It has also been a reluctant participant in the federal review. A six-week delay in receiving funding from the Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency (CEAA) infuriated the TNG, and Elkins says this hampered the TNG's ability to piece together a comprehensive response to a document that is laden with technical material beyond the expertise of most band offices. In the end, the TNG received $300,000 in April of this year, enabling it to hire consultants and dissect Taseko's environmental-impact statement. In the introduction to its submission, which was sent to the CEAA on May 25, 2009, the TNG leaves little room for equivocation: “Teztan Biny is not just a lake nor is it just a large copper and gold deposit ripe for the digging. Artifacts uncovered indicate that Teztan Biny has been in continuous use for 7,000 years.”

The CEAA is accepting public comments until September 18.

The Chilcotin Plateau is a particularly contentious area for resource development. First Nations there have a storied history of resistance to non-Native incursions and intentions dating back to the infamous Chilcotin War. This conflict started in 1864 when a band of Natives—led by the almost mythic character Klatsassin—travelled down the Homathko River, attacking and killing 14 members of a work party attempting to push through Alfred Waddington's ill-fated overland wagon road from the coast. More than a century later, Natives manned a blockade at Henry's Crossing on the Chilko River for two months, successfully quashing plans for clear-cut logging in the Brittany Triangle.

In November 2007, the tiny Xeni Gwet'in First Nation, which belongs to the TNG, made legal history. After an expensive and lengthy court case in B.C. Supreme Court involving testimony from elders in their native language, Justice David Vickers acknowledged the band's rights and title to an area some 4,400 square kilometres in size, encompassing the so-called Nemiah Trapline. With the Prosperity Mine looming on the horizon, the Xeni Gwet'in are once again turning to the courts. In a writ filed by Chief Marilyn Baptiste on January 6, 2009, the Xeni Gwet'in assert their rights and demand that the destruction of Fish Lake be stopped.

First Nations opposing the mine have some vocal allies. David Williams, president of the Friends of the Nemiah Valley, has worked closely with First Nations toward the protection and stewardship of the Brittany Triangle and its bands of feral horses. Williams calls Taseko's plans for Fish Lake an environmental travesty.

“Once you see this lake, it's hard to comprehend how this proposal has even got this far,” Williams says. “It seems like there's a split between town and country on this. In Williams Lake, especially the chamber of commerce, they are rabid about this project.”

The Prosperity Mine has been on the books for some time. Initial exploration of the ore deposits was carried out in the 1930s. Taseko acquired the property in 1969 and continued exploratory drilling throughout the 1970s and 1980s. Engineering, drilling, and metallurgical work continued in the 1990s after mineral magnates Robert Hunter and Robert Dickinson added Taseko to their mining interests. By 1998, the project was brought to the feasibility-study stage; however, in 2000 sagging mineral prices put it on ice.

Now that it's back on, the Williams Lake and District Chamber of Commerce couldn't be happier. Chamber president Sue Redford says the city's economy is in ragged shape and workers are suffering from unemployment rates that jumped almost 80 percent between January 2008 and January 2009. She says the mine would breathe life into this Cariboo-Chilcotin hub. To this end, the chamber is using a $15,000 CEAA grant to survey local businesses and gauge the level of preparedness to capitalize on the estimated $22 million in annual local spending Prosperity would bring.

“There's been a lot of doom and gloom, and we need a little sunshine,” Redford says. “I'm not a scientist, but I'm comfortable and believe that they [Taseko] have done their homework.”

The Williams Lake Tribune, the local newspaper, is another Prosperity Mine cheerleader and has made its position clear in a number of glowing editorials. However, its pages have also displayed strongly worded editorials against the mine. Tribune publisher Lorne Doerksen says you can't dig gold and copper out of the ground without making some sort of impact, and he's at peace with Taseko's environmental plan.

“We took a position a year ago in favour of this mine. Taseko has been a player in our community for a long time and I have faith in that company,” Doerksen says. “Fish Lake is a beautiful spot, and that's why this has stirred up so much debate. I don't think inflammatory comments reflect the majority, and I believe communities can disagree but still work together.”

Behind the emotional debate that inevitably surrounds large-scale mining projects, there are some troubling trends that don't bode well for the environment. In 2002, Fisheries and Oceans Canada quietly brought about, under Section 36 of the Fisheries Act, the Metal Mining Effluent Regulations, a convenient way to legitimize the use of an unknown number of freshwater lakes across Canada as mine-waste and tailings ponds. The regulations formed a substantial loophole for mining companies that enables them to propose fish-bearing lakes as “tailings-impoundment areas”. The benefits to business are obvious; not having to engineer and build secure storage facilities translates into many millions of dollars in savings.

There have also recently been some disturbing developments in the United States, once considered to have considerably tougher mining regulations than Canada. In June this year, the United States Supreme Court upheld a decision allowing the Kensington Mine in Alaska to dump more than 900,000 litres of wastewater per day into Lower Slate Lake even though it will kill the lake's fish; the decision has sent a chill across the environmental community in both Canada and the U.S.

There is also the issue of science and how it's applied to mine planning. Despite advances in our understanding of hydrology and the geochemistry of rocks during and after the operating life of a mine, there are indications that we still aren't very adept at predicting the long-term effects and potential for acid-rock drainage (the process that occurs when mine waste containing acid-generating sulphides is exposed to the air and reacts with oxygen, producing sulphuric acid that can then leach into the surrounding environment). In a study released in 2006, U.S. engineer Jim Kuipers examined 25 closed and operational hardrock mining sites in the U.S., comparing what was predicted in the environmental-impact statements with what actually transpired. Kuipers concluded that the “case studies, with few exceptions, portray a common and systemic theme of underestimation of water quality impacts for new mining projects”.

All this, says Amy Crook, a fisheries biologist for the Montana-based Center for Science in Public Participation (a nonprofit organization that helps stakeholders make informed comments about often overwhelmingly complex mining proposals), suggests that Canada needs to take a much more precautionary approach to hardrock mining. She says an accurate understanding of the ore body and its potential for acid-rock drainage should be the cornerstone of any mine proposal.

“It's absolutely fundamental, because if you don't understand the acid-production potential, it impacts the entire mine plan. It impacts the size of a tailings pond, impoundment dams, and the water-treatment plan,” Crook says over the phone from her office in Victoria. “In the case of Prosperity, it sits in the watershed of one of the most productive salmon systems in the world. How many more hits can the Fraser River take?”

In assembling its review of Taseko's environmental-impact statement, the Tsilhqot'in National Government hired acid-mine-drainage specialist Kevin Morin to examine the water-quality management being proposed for Prosperity. According to Morin, Taseko has underestimated the acid-generating potential and overestimated the neutralizing potential of the rock at the mine site, calling into question the company's plans for managing mine waste. The federal review panel has also expressed some concerns. In a so-called deficiency statement issued to Taseko on June 24, the panel asked the company to supply additional information on a wide range of issues, which suggests the company left a number of loose ends in its hefty submission. The feds want more details on the engineering of the proposed waste-rock and tailings locations, fish and fish-habitat compensation, water quality, wildlife and vegetation impacts, and the First Nations and cultural heritage of the site. Perhaps most importantly, the federal review panel has cast some doubt on the methodology used by Taseko to select Fish Lake as the best option for waste-rock disposal.

At Taseko's headquarters in downtown Vancouver, management is confident about Prosperity. However, they are also well aware that bringing a mine from exploration to full operation is not exactly a cakewalk in British Columbia. Despite the B.C. Liberals' gung-ho attitude toward resource extraction, not a single new hardrock mine has opened in the province since Gordon Campbell won his first term in 2001. In September 2007, Northgate Minerals' plan to expand its Kemess Mine in northern B.C. and use nearby Amazay Lake to impound mine waste was quashed by a joint federal and provincial review panel. Two months later, Teck Cominco and NovaGold deep-sixed their joint venture at Galore Creek, 150 kilometres northeast of Stewart, before the copper and gold mine had begun operation, citing escalating start-up costs. Today, Prosperity joins a list of 23 mines at various stages of the review-and-permitting process.

“The degree of scrutiny around resource projects is extremely high. There are significant challenges to bringing a mining project forward in British Columbia,” says Brian Battison, Taseko's vice president of corporate affairs.

As for the laundry list of deficiencies highlighted by the federal review panel, Battison says the company was already in the process of pulling together the requested information, which he says would have been submitted as part of the review-and-permitting process. He says the decision to pursue Fish Lake for a waste-rock disposal facility was the result of an exhaustive technical and economic review. In the end, according to the company's consultants, all other options were economically unviable.

“This has been looked at as part of a long and expensive alternatives process,” Battison says. “We have an obligation to fully reclaim the property, and we must have enough financial security in place to carry out these activities. And that reclamation work will be undertaken on an ongoing basis.”

In Williams Lake and elsewhere in the Chilcotin, there are a lot of people banking on this project moving forward. But there are likely just as many people with grave concerns about turning a pristine lake containing fish into a pond for toxic mining waste.

Comments

Smartiepants
What a surprise. Mining only exists because of human greed. Take away the greed and no one would be interested in mining. No one needs more mines. There are other ways to sustain yourself and the nature around you. Maybe a price tag attached to the nature and the lake and the fish would be a good idea. I bet it would outweigh any financial benefits from the mine by far. It's like Einstein said: "human stupidity is infinite".
And no surprise about the US Supreme Court decision either. Who do you think runs the court system? It always works against the people have you never noticed that?
 
Brent
To propose the destruction of this lake and potential pollution of the Fraser River system unambiguously makes Taseko Mines an eco-terrorist. It would be completely and utterly insane to proceed.

If the alternatives are not economically feasible, then they need to develop new alternatives which are. Otherwise the project is not feasible. Given the billions of dollars in potential, one would think that new methods could be developed to remove the ecological impact of extraction...
 
Susan Smitten
If this moves people to want to help - the Tsilhqot'in need resources to fight this battle. You can donate at www.raventrust.ca - there is more information as well.
 
Dan Morrison
Smartiepants, your post suggests that you're not all that smart - regardless of the pants you're wearing - and a great example of why Einstein's quote is bang on. Presumably you used a computer to post your perspective. What's the computer made of - Hemp? Do you have a refrigerator/stove/microwave/car/car keys? Do you wanted to be treated properly if you get sick? I'm no fan of mines but at least I'm not a hypocrite - I benefit from them and so do billions of others around the world. Yes there are costs, but to say that greed is the sole reason for mines to exist is ridiculous at best. So enlighten us all - given how smart you claim to be - how human beings can sustain ourselves and nature around us without metals/minerals? How would the transition to such solutions happen without untold suffering? Do we just wrap ourselves in banana leaves and hope for the best? Use mental telepathy instead of computer email?
ps I don't like the proposal but let's get real about how we talk about it.
 
Carol-Anne Besler
Dan Morrison, your post suggests an ignorance that plagues the majority of the population.

It's not about using the resources we have on our planet, but how we use them. Industrialized countries are not lacking in refrigerators, stoves, microwaves etc and you would be silly to think otherwise. No, we're living in a time that when the latest and greatest comes out, we throw out the old so we can buy MORE MORE MORE.

We have all benefited from the mining industry, this is true. But we have also experienced great travesty and irreversible damage because of it as well. When is enough enough? When there is nothing else left to mine? When we're clawing away at each other for the last remaining bits of fresh water?

The people in power who make these decisions know the toll it will take on our environment and our future as a species, but yet they will still proceed. THAT is greed.

END consumerism, END corporate slavery, END the monetary based system. This way of living is archaic and detrimental to our very existence.

Can't you feel the weight of the world on your shoulders too?
 
skeptic
Hey Dan, ever heard of recycling? We've pulled enough metal out of the ground. How much of it is rusting in landfills right now?

Perhaps we should focus on reducing the amount of inputs in consumer goods, reducing waste - as well as focusing on creating technology with elements of backwards compatibility so that instead of throwing away computers, phones, etc, we could upgrade them.

The reason why we need to create ever increasing amounts of consumer goods, and why, instead of using technology for a reasonable amount of time we end up tossing it after just a few years - is GREED as the first poster noted.

Without constant "advances" and the new goods they entail - companies would make less money.

Unfortunately, the earth has been left to finance the relentless search for profit. We should charge the full value of all environmental services that would be impacted by a project.

How much would the rights to a clean lake filled with 85 000 fish over it's lifetime go for on the open market? I would say it would be more than the cost the company will pay for it, that is for sure.

How about the cost of the salmon which will be killed by tailings - over the lifetime of the waste - which would be significantly longer than our lifetimes....
 
Arachne
Dan-greed is perhaps not the best motive to build a civilization upon--but if mining must exist, and to some extent it would, we would have to know the real costs. The mining company has investigated various models to hold and isolate the tailings from the mine. The one using Fish Lake is the least expensive. The cost of the rainbow trout is not considered. There is a difference of opinion on the likelihood of contamination of the groundwater, salmon run, and Fraser downstream--how was this cost included? What amount was budgetted for the local air pollution and climate damage? Because all of these costs, which present prices do not include, we have to drastically change our priorities and simplify if human life is to escape extinction.
 
Why Lord why?!?!
Since fisheries is a federal jurisdiction then I suppose the "Creator" reference would point to none other than little Stevie Harper... God help us!
 
another
carole-ann, are you aware that metals mining has enabled us to turn sea-water into drinking water ? we do not scurry around the forest eating bugs anymore my dear.
 
Johnny Bab
who cares about 85,000 trouts. What the community needs is jobs and money. Trouts will only feed the people, Mines will feed us, cloth us, and put a roof over are heads
 
RS
One environmental disaster (pine beetle) begets another(Prosperity Mine [God ya gotta love the nomenclature]? Taseko's offer of jobs and to create the sterile and unproductive Prosperity Lake is nothing more than beads, trinkets wrapped in a small pox infected blanket. Good deal for Taseko and it's shareholders over twenty years -- pernicious deal for the environment, the Tsilhqot'in First Nations, and others in perpetuity.

A pox on the Ministry of Fisheries and Oceans and the current autocratic regime in Victoria for enabling the wholesale destruction of the peoples' environment for the purposes of a few privileged and affluent fat cats.

Who really runs this country?

 
Dan Morrison
Just to be clear to those who didn't apparently understand what I was trying to say, I get the need to reduce, re-use, recycle, I understand the need to look at the true cost of mining and for that matter, everything that we do. My point was simple: the first poster said that mines exist solely because of greed, and I don't agree. I also said that we need to look at the way we talk about issues, regardless of the 'side' you're on.

Carole-Ann, did you know that so-called 'greed' has led to the development of solar panels that enable poverty-stricken people in the third world to cook and light their shacks at night, reducing deforestation for fuel wood and otherwise increasing the quality of their lives? Have you noticed that greed did not stand in the way of eliminating ozone depleting substances? All I'm saying is, ideological diatribes like "mines exist only because of greed" or "corporate slavery" or references to those evil politicians (who we either voted for, didn't vote for or, even worse, didn't even bother to vote for on either side). Hey, we have a lot of problems - our footprint on the earth must be minimized. But let's recognize that in some way we all are part of the problem - and we need to figure out how to talk about solutions without resorting to the simplistic diatribes of the first poster.
 
Realist
Lets face it mining is a necessity for the modern world. To say that we can just recycle is rediculous. Yes we should recycle and reuse but this is not a pollution free process either. Just because the emissions disappear into the atmosphere does not mean they do not exist. Does anyone know what the cost of a new car would be if it was made from 100% recycled materials? I'm no expert but im sure my ford focus would be 10x the cost. I can't afford that!!! and I can't walk the 30 km (each way) to work either! And to all you big city dwellers saying "take the bus".......... we don't have a bus system in place where I live. My hard earned tax money goes to your big city centers so you can ride the bus. Lets face it everything pollutes. From commercial fishing vessels to movie sets, logging, the methane from those dang cattle (maybe we should all eat soy!) and tourists driving around in gas guzzling campers. I'm not saying lets get rid of these industries as they all have an important place in our world but to say we don't need it or its just greed is hypocritical. Do your reseach on this project and on the BC economy. This project will add more to the GDP than the fishing/canning industries combined. More than the film/tv industries. With forestry down big time and 1000's of people out of work, a mine like this, managed with environmental guidelines and regulations is what we need! Who do you suppose pays for your hospitals? Schools? Welfare? Parks? Who do you suppose will feed my family if these industries all move overseas? Who will feed yours?
 
Clark Wright
Well, as a 25-year veteran environmental lawyer, and owner of Taseko stock, I have a fairly unique series of prespectives to bring to bear to this debate. First and foremost, it is SO disappointing to see the same old "us versus them" mentality in the prior posts. We ALL pollute, AND we ALL are in this together. Translated, we desperately need new sources of metals AND we desperately need to reduce, reuse and recylce - AND to work much harder to reduce adverse environmental impacts associated with mining operations. One of the hard realities of improved environmental regulation and internalization of more of the external environmental costs associated with various activities is that the end-costs to consumers will go up - possibly WAY up. As an honors economics major many years ago, I would say this is a good thing speaking strictly in terms of economic forces. If you increase dramatically the price of basic commodities, including water, electricity, gasoline and various basic metals, then you right there great HUGE new market incentives for conservation, and if government gets the regulatory process right, you greatly reduce adverse environmental impacts. BUT, you also greatly increase inflation, and you end up with regressive impacts on those among us least able to pay. In short, there are no easy answers. Just as with the current healthcare debate down here in the United States, what is desperately needed as a first step is civil and honest discourse, where we all try to learn more from one another, honestly identify all the short and long term impacts, and then work out intelligent solutions, even if it means compromise. On the Taseko project, I wonder if a truly hard look has been given to the potential for an alternative mining waste storage and disposal system? Could that be done in phases, based on continuing economic returns?
 
rin
I find it pretty hard to believe that they can put people into space but can't figure out a way to build electronics without mining more metal out of the ground. Really? We really need more mines in the world? Maybe what we need is less consumer crap. If people who think they can't survive without a new iPod and the latest cell phone spent just a few days at Fish Lake (have YOU ever been there? I have...), they might see that if we have a life filled with the richness of wilderness, maybe we don't need so much junk to distract us from our lives.
 
Realist Also
Crawl out of the dark age.
Earth First. We mine the other planets later.
We cant all sit around hugging trees, picking mushrooms, smoking pot, and collecting welfare. Open your eyes, almost everything you use in your daily life comes from mining. If it can't be grown, it's gotta be mined!
 
Smartiepants
bottom line is everyone is a "money whore", a slave to the system.
did people in the olden days need money? no they live off the land etc.
did people need more than food, shelter and clothing? no!!. were they less happy? probably not. no one is alive from those days to tell.
then governments started to turn people into making them want things, i want this, i want that etc. that's when all the crap started. i want an i-phone, i want a car, i want a house with a pool. fact remains human greed is the root of all earth's problems.
 
Getting Real
Interesting to note that all of the anti-mining comments have so many negative votes, and the pro-mining comments have many positive votes. This seems counter to the usual sway of the Straight's readers. Maybe we have someone who wants to make it seem like there are more people pro-mining kicking around then there really are? Hows about we put it to a provincial referendum?

I'm the daughter of a man who ran several public company mining companies thoughout BC and Arizona. I'm named after a famous diamond mine, so inertwined is our family with the mining industry. I've seen the inside of these companies and I know how their directors and their shareholders work - anything for a quick buck, no matter what the cost.

Remember, shareholders, that nothing is free, and there is always a cost. You might not be paying it now, as you rape the earth, but you most certainly will pay for it down the road.
 
RS
"On the Taseko project, I wonder if a truly hard look has been given to the potential for an alternative mining waste storage and disposal system?" C.W.

Exactly. I realize that mining for resouces is inevitable, but the environmental impacts of resource extraction must be eliminated. The destruction of a living lake to make
things more profitable for Taseko and it's shareholders (or any other mining co. for that matter) shouldn't even be open to consideration. If Taseko can't come up with safe way to deal with the toxic tailings other than to dump them into Teztan Biny (Fish Lake) and/or poisoning the Taseko, Chilko, Chilcotin and Fraser rivers, then it quite simply the project should not be developed. It is SO disappointing to see a mining company operate with such little regard for the environment and the people living within it.

If "Prosperity" Miine cannot be developed responsibly and safely, then Taseko should cut their losses and get out now, and write it off as a nonviable speculative venture and move on. That's what happens when you invest/gamble in the stock market -- sometimes you win 'n' sometimes you loose.
 
Chili
Clark Wright: You're a lawyer all right.
 
Eric Chris
It's all about a quick buck. There are other copper mines in the world, and we don't need to destroy the lake. No thanks.
 
Smartiepants
It's so simple. Bottom line is the human "wanting". Always looking for something and they never find it. Like a hamster running around on it's wheel in its cage. It never gets anywhere. It just keeps spinning and spinning. Same thing for humans. Always wanting something whether materialistic or spiritual. And do they ever stop wanting? No. When they got one thing they start wanting another. Do they ever find what they are searching for? No, never because there is nothing to search for. Simple as that. There are no answers to questions that you have. But instead of being at peace with that it disturbs humans so mucht that they create desires, goals etc. to deceive themselves into believing that somehow, some day they will find it or get it and then all will be perfect but it never is.
That is why humans are afraid of death because they are still looking for something and there is nothing to find. When you stop the search and stop the wanting your life becomes so basic and simple that everyone else around you becomes funny. Running around, doing all kinds of things and they never stop looking. When you die you can't bring your money with you so what's the point in accumulating it? It's a search without an end. What's the point in mining for gold,diamonds etc.?
Can you eat them? Can you build a house for yourself from it? Can you make clothing from them? No. So what's the point? No point but pure greed and wanting.
 
areyoukiddingme?
Smartiepants,

you're right, I'm trading in my Acura for a horse, selling my house and getting a tent. I'm gonna blow up Walmart and a get a stick with some string and a worm to fish for food. I'm burning my Levi's and will start wearing buckskins. I tossed my cellphone and am buying drums to communicate.

What a joke. This is not the "olden" days. I'm sure you use all of modern day technologies. Stop being so mindless.

I'll betcha if Taseko said they would build you a casino, you be scooping the fish out of the lake yourself.
 
Carol-Anne
The views expressed on here about mining in 2009 is extremely worrisome.

I'm under the impression that most pro-miners here are old fuddies who get defensive when their outdated way of life is questioned.

We can't continue using the same system of past generations, because obviously it's not working. Yeah, we have a lot of 'cool stuff', but that cool stuff isn't going to matter for much when we've ran out of clean drinking water.

We have so far to go in the 'search' for a sustainable way of living, and I fear that not enough people will wake up to the magnitude of the choices we have made on this Earth in time.

"Does anyone know what the cost of a new car would be if it was made from 100% recycled materials?"

The point is, there are enough cars in circulation to never have to build a new one, recycled materials or not. Not only that, but it's an outdated and unrealistic method of transportation in 2009. It's a waste of energy and resources, and you would have to be lying to yourself to think otherwise.

Read a book. Do your research, and maybe these pro-miners might see through this consumerist facade.

But, I digress.

We don't need to build more shit that's going to become obsolete by next season.

Stamp out your consumerist ways, and stamp out mining and other environmental crimes. Buy less, live longer.
 
Denise
As long as we breathe air and consume food to sustain our existence, we must have respect and take care of the thing that sustains and provides us with our existance.
 
RickW
To all you people who favour killing Fish Lake: All those jobs mentioned would do is allow people to make enough money to fly off to Disneyland or Hawaii. Or buy (another) SUV, or ATV.

One thing for sure -- killing Fish Lake ain't about survival. It's about comfort. How about you all moving to Fish Lake while the mine is dumping their sludge, instead of doing the NIMBY thing? It's easy to say we need it -- just so long as we don't have to look at it, smell it, or taste it.............
RickW
 
another
carole-anne , do you know how much copper enables you to use a computer , think about the whole grid it is connected to . Also you say cars are outdated mode of transport , tell that to tradesmen all over the province , should they haul their tools on the bus and plunk down next to you ???
 
jack
nice picture. what does it take to reach this lake? how remote is it and how many people visit per year? 85,000 fish in10 or 15 acres is a strong population if you can get to them. Versus 60 years of planning and investigation costs and 22 million dollars to the annual local economy. zero mine approvals out of 23 in 8 years. More people need (must have) more resources.
 
Fish Laker
How many of you are aware that the fish in Fish Lake are wormy and over populated due to the high littoral to pelagic zone ratio. The lake itself actually prevents the fish from becoming larger and healthier. However, the new artificial lake will provide a healthier environment for the fish in terms of having a more optimal ratio.
 
Coyote
Fish Laker, who gives a crap about if the fish are wormy. They aren't there for our benefit alone. They are but one part of a complex ecosystem that no mining company in the world can replace. If it were only about fish and fishing then the company may as well put up a big barrel in the middle of Williams Lake, fill it with trout and call it Prosperity Lake.
- Coyote
 
RickW
Jack says: "More people need (must have) more resources."

So how about recycling, and less "consuming"?
RickW
 
sc
There's a lot of good and bad that can be seen with this proposed mine. If copper isn't mined in BC, the demand for it will be fill by another mine in some other part of the world where environmental regulations are less stringent. Is that better? For the locals? For the world as a whole?

Green technologies like electric cars, wind turbines, heat exchangers, etc, require massive amounts of copper to work. I'm not about to decide that reducing global warming is more important but there's a bigger picture to think about when looking at the demand for copper. It isn't always used for insignificant consumption.

I'm not familiar with the proposed method of copper extraction but I think some compromise solutions should be considered. i.e. partial storage and treatment.

Killing a lake and risking downstream water sounds pretty bad but I'm not sure if the alternatives are better. Like killing 10 lakes somewhere else on the planet. Or try looking up electronics recycling in China if you want to see the dark side of recycling.

BTW, lots of comments in here about if cars could be recycled. Really annoying. About half of the steel (the majority of the car) comes from recycled steel.
 
shareholder with a brain and heart
Copper is used for so many things... Food, Textiles, Construction, Medicine.... please do some research before you make such uneducated comments: http://www.copper.org/applications/homepage.html

I agree we are in an age (and for sure Canada should be a leader) where we need to find ways to not destroy lakes.
Take some of that profit and "invent" some mining technology that doesn't exist anywhere in the world to hold tailings.... then sell that technology in the future.
 
Pokemon is new bull market
Great discussion. Piss poor action (except for a few of you).

Don't like the proposal? Short the stock, write a letter, call your mom.
Like it and want to help out? Buy shares.

I personally picked up a few thousand shares back in mid may. You know what I'm going to do with all my earnings? Buy snake skin jump suits. oooohhhh yeeeeaaaaaa

Has anyone even considered how delicious the fish are? This is key information.
 
mama_loey
I like the idea of finding an alternative to using the lake as a sesspool. Even if the fish are wormy. There is still the issue of water, which in some places in the world is a hard won commodity. I also agree that WANTING colors our thinking about these matters . Apart from greed, there seems to be a pervasive hunger in our industrialized culture that drives us to buy things which never seem to satisfy. I believe it is spiritual and that a trip to fishing lake with that in mind might help a few. And it is worth it to save the lake just for that. It os NOT just a body of water with a few fish in it. It is a whole ecoworld and as such has much to offer hungry souls.
 
herbanator
keep on smoking, but do come up to fish lake and hug a million dead trees while you are there, maybe talk to a few thousand forestry workers and their families, then, maybe then your half dead brains, might start to function again. you could also take the time to learn more about the proposal, just 3000 pages of detail...or do something about the sewage victoria pumps into the ocean, guess that is why there is no more salmon around, died of the shit you morons distribute.
 
Vera M. Quilt
I am a residnt of the Xeni Gwet"in First Nations and I do not support the mining because I enjoy the outdoors, camped out most of my life. I love the clean unpolluted waters, I do not have buy my water bottled. I live off the land, have most of my life. My family still live off the land, I grow my own vegetables every year, smoke and dry our own fish and wildmeat every year. I still do laundry by hand, I love our untouched land because that is all we have left, I am glad we were forced to go to residential schools and was taught how to speak english and learned lots about greed myself. I could use some cash myself to support my habits and some extras, but hey I am already rich with all this land that we need to survive, got all the meat, fish for the winter and enought vegies to last me all winter! Got lots of fresh untouched water, don't have to worry about how much bleach they put in there!
This little reserve we were put on back in the day is our life but we learned to live off this land and now you want to destroy it? Humans are the most unsatisfied beings on earth, we complain about everything, can't satisfy them all!
 
herbanator
ok Vera, good story, you still live in a tepee, and the fire keeps you warm all winter, and you have never been to williams lake to shop eh?
 
jeri
We have been camping/fishing at Fish Lake and the surrounding area for over 30 years now including this past summer. It is simply a beautiful area and a place where my ashes were to be laid to rest one day. I remember 30 years ago finding core samples there and not thinking much about it back then. I can't even fathom an open pit mine in the area. If you close your eyes and imagine a nuclear bomb dropping in the middle of the lake and the destruction billowing out from the center destroying everything in its path for miles and miles. This is what will happen if the mine goes through. It completely breaks my heart to think that this lake, the first lake that my husband brought me to before we were married, that we brought our children to every year, will be gone. Please, please, Taseko Lake Co., rethink your plans and keep Fish Lake the peaceful, serene place it should be.
 
shawn morris
another example of no foresight as to who "WE" vote into governing power even though equivocal and numerous examples of past environmental detriment and out right disrespect and disaster stare us in the face.
Embarrassed really to be from not so Beautiful BC
pathetic
earth first nations please
 
jake from the lake
We do not trust mining companies. They will take any shortcut to increase their profit. The dumping of mining waste into the Fraser river ,and the amount when no one is looking, could be a problem for sockeye salmon..
The chamber of commerce is just another mouthpiece for
the private sector. The chamber of commerce is all for this operation ,and the local economy could use some help.
What she forgot to mention was the reason were having economic problems . The recession is because the capitalistic system allowed for massive thefts of money by the corporations and banking system. If you were good at stealing (wall street)you got billions in bonuses. The Campbell gov has put BC billions of dollars into debt. Now he is quite willing to sell out BC to cover his incompetence.
He is destroying wild stock salmon,our rivers ROR, the environment.etc ,and all to foreigners who will fill the pockets of this sleazy government. Most of the metal mined will be out sourced to China Japan and Korea, Non union workers getting around 5 bucks an hour will send us their automobiles for big bucks. Are any of these foreign countries involved with Taseco? When Taseco's CEO has a board meeting he will be able to inform the shareholders that the more they are allowed to pollute the more money they will make.
Keep BC environmentally clean remove Campbell and his crew.
 
Caffiend
The problem with some of the people who have been brought up in consumerisum is that they have absolutley no idea how fulfilling a simple life can be, and how rich. You can't put a price on a lake like Fish lake and everything down the line that depends on it and the air to boot. The day will soon end when the people in other countries that now work as slaves to produce your "stuff"' (that will produce next years landfill) are the only ones to be working for peanuts. That is the future you rush into. Stop hankering after the poor unfulfilling life that they offer you and with your eyes open Look at what you've got. You've got so much and your throwing it out.
 
Andreas Herrmann
Protect Fishlake I
 
Jeri E.
I come from the Tsilhqot'in nation. Both My parents come from the Xeni Gwet'in area at one time before the missionaries and furtraders visited and decided to stay on our land one way or the other. I have just finished learning about my identity as a result from the residential school. It takes time to come to terms with where I come from and who I am. Now I am teaching the next generation to learn about themselves. Now this mining company is going to come and mess up the land. With this land a person comes to feel rooted to their identity. We have a generation of angry young people who I feel its taking time for them to want to change because they need role models. Just when I feel I am making changes another injustice on our identity is threatened. The land we come from is being destroyed just so a few people could live comfortably. Why can't we go back to living the way our ancestors used to live without hydro, heat and stores to buy our food. We need the land to grow organic food, get medicines , and eat wildlife ( Its better for the health). Is there other ways to make money. Move out and live independently or make our town go solar. I am getting tired of paying for rent, lights, heat and eating food thats going to give me cancer. In this way, a person can live longer and enjoy the fruits of the earth in a wholistic way. What I am trying to say is what does it take to get the interested parties to sit together at a table to consult with each other on the poisons the mine will cause on our fresh water.
 
Dana
@Dan Morrison and other pro miners. There are some who might not see the links between resource extraction and the computer they are typing from and the cables that tie their cable/ADSL connection or the car they sit in or the plane they take for luxurious travel or even the sink they wash their dishes in. I think the point people are making is 20 years or less of benefit vs. losing a resource that can actually feed people (rainbow trout) for a lifetime and the thousands of years of degradation of the lake and groundwater to ocean cycle that we all depend on. It is simply a bottom line for investors (that by the way is called greed) and yes, we all play a part in it but it's time to put a stop to this type of mentality that we can just pillage the planet with no consequences. Resources are finite and you don't need a degree, masters or PhD to look around and realize that. Can you eat copper or gold? Nope. Can you drink the liquid from a tailings pond? Nope. But we can sure eat rainbow trout and drink the fresh water that comes from the lake. I for one, want to leave something for my daughter that is not a toxic dump. It is not an easy problem to solve considering our whole economy and culture is based on consumerism which is fed from resource extraction.
 
Kakila-Hereditary Chief Tenas Lake Samahquam, St'at'imc Trib
Killing fish for more money is greed. Heartless and mindless. There is no end to how much money one needs in this world. Fish is food and part of the ecology. Damaging so much environment for metal you can't eat or renew is sensless. What do you mean get real. Killing life cannot be justified. But soon the Vancouver Island will sink, soon the big one will hit Vancouver. No amount of Gold or money will save anyone. Only food like fish will keep you alive.
 
G.J. W.
They have now found, oil has leached into the mighty, Athabasca River. The river in Michigan, had a bad spill, pipelines leak and burst. Have a look at what toxic mine waste did in China. Would Harper and Campbell drink the water, from a creek, near the toxic mine waste dump? I'm sure they wouldn't mind, a little mercury poisoning. That toxic waste, leaches into the eco system. Any wildlife, fish and bird, using poisoned, lakes, rivers and creeks, will perish. The First Nation People, have to constantly battle, to save their sources of food. There are many more pollution plans for BC. Ask Rafe Mair, of the Common Sense Canadian, has to say about, Hansen's plans for 700 rivers in BC. Thousands of BC people will stand behind the F.N. People. They have more battles to face. Dirty oil tankers in their coastal waters. There is still oil collecting on the rocks, from the Valdez spill, 21 years ago. Off shore oil and gas wells, off BC's coast?? There was a 6.6 earthquake in the Queen Charlotte's. China bought a big chunk of the Alberta tar sands. The Enbridge pipeline, is to carry the dirty crude, to the Port of Kitimat. The pipeline goes over, hundreds of rivers, streams and land. The Chinese dirty oil tankers, are to carry the dirty crude back to China. The sea around Kitimat, is especially, wild, treacherous, and very difficult to navigate. When the oil spill happens. The Orca and the Humpback whales will die, and so will all marine life, in the dirty oils path. Again, the First Nations, depend on the sea, to help feed their families. If, we had a strong leader, willing to stomp out corruption, we wouldn't be in this, gigantic mess. Campbell's corruption, is destroying BC. This BC province, is the most corrupt, in all of Canada. Greed and corruption, is what really governs this country. And then, there is Harper preaching about global government, and he loves it. Foreign countries are buying Canada, we have a lot of natural resources to be, plundered and sold. You are so right Chief Tenas, Harper and Campbell, will have to eat their money, when, there is no food left. However, they learned nothing, from the Gulf spill, the Michigan spill and oil in the Athabasca. And also, destroying all the farmland, with more stupidity.
 
Nikita F.
I agree with Jeri. E.
and Carol-Anne.
 
Ray Martin
Should we do everything we can to protect the environment... absolutely, Do we need basic materials to improve our lives ...absolutely. Can we acquire these materials in an environmentally friendly way ...absolutely. There are more deer in Texas now than when the U.S. became a country. Hunters buy hunting and fishing licenses and lease land to hunt on. That money is used to improve the deer and game bird habitat and the fisheries. We have a fishery that breeds millions of speckled trout and red drum that are released into our waters. Where I live there are subdivisions where there used to be open fields ...yet we have more migratory game birds visiting us than any other time in history. With careful oversight, when wetlands are used for a subdivision there is remediation of other land for wetland to replace it. We have put men on the moon and should not only protect the environment but maybe help it out. But can't we avoid becoming so entrenched in having only one viewpoint we can't work together towards a "win/win compromise. It is my understanding that the lake that Taseko proposes to build will be far superior to Fish Lake. It will be deeper, larger and much more fish friendly. I mean it is not like we don't have the ability to build a lake. Both large lakes near Houston are man made, Lake Houston and Lake Conroe, and they cover thousands of acres. There is swimming, fishing and water skiing plus provide the entire city with its water supply.
Nobody wants to see pictures of such a beautiful spot turned into an industrial wasteland. But when I go to the hospital for a MRI I hope someone dug up enough copper to wire the thing. If someday I want to fish in Prosperity Lake I hope someone dug up enough aluminum to build the plane so I can get there. When we grow rice with diesel driven tractors, and dedicate a portion of our crops to feed hungry children in the world, I hope someone dug up enough iron ore to make steel to keep the refineries producing fuel.
 
 
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