News and Views » Commentary

Vanessa Knight: TransLink's lack of late-night downtown service makes zero sense

By Vanessa Knight with Ashley Fehr

It’s the first time the clock hits 1:16 a.m. on November 1, and crowds of people are stumbling around downtown after leaving the clubs for destinations across Metro Vancouver. Two TransLink security guards stand outside Waterfront Station and tell the partiers that they’ve missed the last train. Drunk and footsore, Duffman, Medusa, and I scramble to figure out how to get home to Surrey.

Some might ask why we didn’t do the responsible thing and find out ahead of time when the SkyTrain would be running until, or point out that had there not been a time change we still would have missed the train. But then they should probably say that to the other 200 people who were teetering down the sidewalk on Water Street dressed as vampires, zombies, and slutty versions of everything. The fact of the matter is, of every day in 2009, Halloween night plus daylight saving time was probably the best reason TransLink could have found to keep the SkyTrain open another hour.

See also

Amanda Eyolfson: Let's hope U-Pass issue gets resolved soon for all students

Derek Robertson: Campaign for one price for the U-Pass is deeply flawed

Maureen Bader: Inefficient TransLink needs to tender-out transit services

Paul R. Landry: The TransLink tax merry-go-round

Nimmi Takkar: TransLink must stop U-Pass discrimination

Halloween is the night when all of the people 19 to however-old-that-person-in-the-panda-suit-was get to head out to a public place and really display their creativity, sense of humour, or just mighty fantastic cleavage. And the best way to put your best assets on display? Go out and party! Non-government sanctioned holidays are all about getting your drink on, and the best known place for that (with a few exceptions) is always in downtown Vancouver. Don’t like the club? Head next door! Every party animal is partying it up on Halloween, and at about 1 a.m. in the morning, the majority of them try to catch the last ride home.

Now, I am not a business guru, but something tells me that crowds of the inebriated heading out of downtown tend to need some form of transportation other than their shambling boots and six-inch stilettos. It could be the pack of followers we accumulated heading to Pender and Carrall (mistaking it for the nearest N19 stop) that led me to this conclusion, or, at the second 1:30 a.m. that morning, it could have been the four buses that passed by us completely full. Of course, who could have predicted that a holiday landing on a Saturday would result in large amounts of transportation-less ghouls?

At this point, my posse and I had almost completely sobered up. Duffman (a fourth-year business student at Kwantlen Polytechnic University) was ranting to any fiend or fairy that would listen about how TransLink is driving themselves into the ground with stunts like this, and Medusa was miserably huddled under an outfit not really made to cover anything up. We headed to McDonald’s, where on any given weekend night there is a steady line to the door until at least 4 a.m. You see, McDonald’s happily profits off of the drunken people stuck downtown that TransLink seems to think are insignificant.

Unfortunately, TransLink’s lack of response to the community’s late-night transit needs is not limited to Halloween. Every Friday and Saturday night, hundreds of people are trapped downtown. Either the TransLink board of directors is remarkably unaware of these events or they are grossly incompetent and do not see the opportunity that the assistant manager at McDonald’s sees.

Exiting the profitable McDonald’s, we were fortunate to catch bus No. 10, which could hardly contain another body. It should be mentioned that this was the second-last scheduled bus of the night.

It is, of course, useful to know that TransLink has recognized the need for late-night transit service during the 2010 Olympics. It is obvious that TransLink is more responsive to Vanoc than it is to the region’s own citizens.

Now, I’m not saying that TransLink is at fault for the fact that I got home at 4 a.m. (after the time change, making it feel like 5 a.m.)—only that they screwed themselves out of my bleary eyed $2.50 and the change of all my fellow party-goers. In the eternal words of an actor portraying Duffman, “If there was somebody who was supposed to see this coming and didn’t, they should be fired!”

Vanessa Knight is the director of events and student life for the Kwantlen Student Association.

Ashley Fehr is the chair and director of academic affairs for the student association.

Comments

WTF
Vanessa it makes perfect sense to me. Transit isn't supposed to be a 24 hour taxi service for everyone who can't drive. If you want to get around at 2 AM, hire a darn cab. Do you think that people on bus routes want to listen to empty or nearly empty screaming diesel buses all night because TransLink can't be bothered to operate quiet electric trolley buses at night?

Is that what you call responsible and are empty diesel buses cutting down on GHG emissions? We already have the ridiculous N17 for drunk and stoned uni students because the COV councillors can't say no to special interest-whining groups wanting transit to UBC until 3:30 AM. Screw you and find a boyfriend to drive you around town.
 
L2K
I do in fact say to everyone that night that you should have planned the night out a little more carefully. I won't argue that TransLink has done a service to anyone by stopping transit before one o' clock, but no one was trying to cover up the transit situation. I understand the frustration with the public transportation system, being a resident of the lower mainland myself; however, here I think you are at least incorrect in your assertion that "Either the Translink board of directors is remarkably unaware of these events or they are grossly incompetent and do not see the opportunity..." TransLink is not unaware of the issues with the hours of operation, nor is it what I would call "grossly incompetent."

I also think that it is unfair to use TransLink's response to the Olympics in comparison to this instance as a representation of its relationship with the public. It isn't as if TransLink hasn't made any accomodating changes to the system, and besides that, I don't think that there is a great argument maintaining that the Olympics isn't important enough to warrant a change in transit operation.

In short, I agree with you. Hopefully, transit will make appropriate adjustments for the future, and you will plan your adventures a little better (and your friend will consider being a little more prepared for a less than sunny 1AM exit).
 
Serial Vixen
I have been to London-UK, Paris- France & Berlin-Germany and Berlin has the BEST public transit I have ever experienced.

The U-Bahn and S-Bahn (subway & above ground transit), M-Trams and buses run 24 hours from Thursday-Monday morning (after midnight transit runs every half hour) . You actually never need to drive or get a taxi (which are everywhere) when you stumble out of a club at 5 a.m. or 9 a.m. ;)

It depresses me to no end knowing & experiencing a thoughtful city (Berlin) that wants people to drink, party and not drive home while the green-politically correct city (Vancouver) could not care less if people get killed because of intoxicated drivers on the road. If there was a proper mass transit system the people from the burbs would not have to drive.

-SV

BTW-A taxi trip to the burbs can run from $75.00-$120.00
 
car pool
no reason to be at night other than work or partying. if you do work that late car pool and pay the gas, it's cheaper than bus pass or get car. as for partying,,,pay for cab.
 
grow up SV
SV it depresses me that you stumble out of bars between 5 am to 9 am and want to take transit to shock some poor mother with her kids in tow.
 
PS
Hot chicks don't stumble out of bars at 5 am to hop on transit; they get picked up early and go home in a BMW.
 
rocket science
it's called public transit for a reason - it's public. therefore, it should be accessible to the public whenever the public needs to go somewhere. day, night, whenever. not just for special occasions, not just for the 9-5 crowd, and not just for specific parts of town. everywhere, everyone, all the time. you want to call yourself world class, ACT it.
 
Do what other cities do...
...and have an additional charge (even on top of u-pass and monthly passes) for late-night service. It makes no sense to not serve customers that are willing to pay, or to provide excessive service for small numbers of people just because it's perceived as 'the public good'. What Translink needs is more flexibility in the provision of its services (think the union plays a role in the lack fo night service?), and a mandate to return to profitability.
 
Evil Eye
Public Transit can't be all things to all people and very few cities run metro or subways 24 hours a day. London's Tube stops operation at about 1 am.

All subways need maintenance and automatic (driverless) metros, like SkyTrain must shut down for at least 5 hours for mandatory maintenance.

Now if ridership on a transit route demands, then one may want to run an all night service and some cities with LRT do because it is a simple system. Very few cities offer 24 hour transit service except for major conurbations like Paris or Berlin.

TransLink doesn't operate late night service, except for a few routes, because the demand isn't there to support it.
 
You silly ppl
Okay, I completely understand where everyone is coming from. First off, not EVERYONE wants to get picked up at the bar, they usually are there to have a good time and dance. So, leaving in some random dudes car, not really safe when you're wasted. Catching a cab from Downtown to the "burbs", is WAY too costly for a student. Look on a bus, they are pretty much 80% students. Its rather sad that TransLink has only made changes for the Olympics, but understandable considering us people that actually live here, are not going to be overly affected by these crazy Olympic freaks.

and to the one who said "Screw you and find a boyfriend to drive you around town." Damn are you stupid or something? What if she wants a girlfriend to drive her, or wait, maybe she falls for people and doesn't just go for somebody who has a car like a materialistic tool like you....
 
seth
Transclunk could reduce mid morning and early afternoon bus frequency somewhat to pay for a bit of extra late night service. No doubt a fair number of people have died or been injured because folks use vehicles to avoid that $100 midnight cab fare to the burbs.
seth
 
WTF
Excuse me "ysp", I wasn’t expecting a flood of support for ragging on 24 hour transit. Seeing as this is Vancouver, I should have said find a girlfriend, boyfriend or whatever to drive you around town. Transit isn't for "transit hoes" to get cheap rides to bars or dance clubs at 3 am to show off cleavage to attract a mate. Transit is for students to get an education so that they can get the heck off transit before they end up with a huge mortgage, two kids and a pitiful existence commuting from Coquitlam to Vancouver for a lousy minimum wage service job.

If you haven’t heard, transit at 3 am is a good way to get assaulted by the creeps preying on unsuspecting young naí¯ve female students who think that nothing is going to happen to them on “safe transit”. What about on the walk from the bus stop or SkyTrain station to home, are you going to be safe at any time in this city with all the creeps hanging out around transit? Most responsible cities understand the pitfalls of transit and don’t offer it after 11 pm to cut down on crime. You have much to learn grasshopper!

 
Carmen2009
While it would be great if transit was available 24/7...fact is...it's not. Work with the system as it exists now and try to effect change from within the system as it exists now. Otherwise, you will be looked at as a bunch of cheap, drunken students that cant manage to keep an eye on the clock and a $20 in their pocket when out for the night. Alot of people manage to go out, have a good time and get home...what's wrong with you that you can't?
Maybe...just maybe...it's your responsibility. (and you're the friggin future?)
Geez...
 
partytimes247
the real problem here is TRANSLINK cheaping out as usual while at the same time the joke is on Vancouver. If this city wishes to be known as "world class" then perhaps it should act like one. I have been to cities throughout the world and across North America in particular , and have seen that the combination of antiquated drinking laws and no public transit , which is the norm in Vancouver, leads to problems in the downtown core and basicallly promotes the view that ," the social nightlife in this town sucks!". 1 - what is wrong with some late night transit to be available for people in the wee hours, I guess its just safer to drive impaired in a town which promotes itself as "world class". 2 - to create a city with some social , fun, identity it must avail itself to helping and not inhibit this promotion easy transit availability is a must because people are going to need to get around. Obviously Translink sees this as well as the gov't because late night transit will be available during the 2010 Olympics , after all there would be alot of annoyed world tourists if it wasn't when most of the world bars stay open till 6am with available and diverse means of travel available when it becomes necessary, transit being the primary choice. Wake up Vancouver!
 
Vancouver Late Night Transit is 2nd Rate
Lots of arguments here about how other cities have second-rate transit so Vancouverites should just shut up and accept it. And a few arguments about how stopping transit early makes sense because it might be dangerous to run it an hour or two later. What nonsense! I'm and older fellow, not a "cheap, drunken student" as some of the people here have referred to young people. I like to take transit at night on occasion and do not like the pressure of cutting the evening short, just to rush back to the bus or train. I suspect that the people who don't want to extend the evening hours of a few downtown bus routes because of the expense are people who are not supporters of public transit in general, and who don't want to put tax dollars into things that they don't personally benefit from in a direct way. I'm grateful that these people who are ideologically opposed to public spending are not the majority in Canada, and that we still do things for the greater good ... including transit for everyone. The irony here is that the same type of person who is telling people to take a late-night taxi ride home for $100 if they want to go downtown in the evening is also the first to howl and scream bloody murder if the price of a litre of gas goes up a few pennies and increases the costs of running their car by a few dollars a week.
 
transit hoes get a life ...
Transit is a glorified welfare program. Get over it; 24 hour transit increases crime, increases GHG emissions and panders to losers who want everything for free!
 
L2K
I'm glad that this is getting some healthy discussion. I have a few responses to some people:

SerialVixen - Not having 24 hour transit service does not entail that drunk people drive. I'm also not sure that you want to directly encourage people to drink all night. A taxi trip may cost you, but there are also Night buses that run until about 3 AM. There isn't a need to take a taxi ride all the way home from downtown Vancouver. Also, I'm not sure if you know this, but you never have to drive or get a taxi when you stumble out of a club at 5 a.m. or 9 a.m. in Vancouver, either (as it's regular service hours, and coverage is quite decent for most people).

rocket science - It's hard to get buses to run to everyone's house. At some point, efficiency has to be taken into account. A lot of people aren't prepared to deal with the logistic/financial consequences of that. But here's hoping.

"Do what other cities do..." - I suppose you could call that a taxi service.

seth - That might be feasible, but I think that frequent service during those times is actually pretty important to a lot of people. Also, here might be a good place for me to comment that I suppose TransLink is inevitably _somewhat_ responsible for drunk drivers, but there really has to be line drawn somewhere. Wanting to avoid taking a cab is really no good reason to risk your life as well as the lives of others; individuals have to take responsibilities for their own actions.

WTF - Good point on the crime... that's part of the reason why people anticipate Richmond to share part of the negative reputation that Surrey has had. However, I think that those who wish to take the risk of transiting at night ought to be able to do so. There almost seems to be just as much risk transiting during the day, what with stabbings and shootings happening in the middle of rush hour these days.

partytimes247 - I'm not sure if I parsed that all correctly... I don't even know what to say to you. I guess I'm pretty tame... I don't need to get shitfaced at 4am in order to have fun.

VLNTi2R - Do you actually know of people who tell people to take a taxi home for $100 and then cry about the price of fueling their car? I'm curious. I do support better accessibility, and I am also very conscious about the price people would have to pay for it. I think, though, that's a problem that is often more to do with the decisions of TransLink as a business than simply more hours means more dollars.

I initially commented on the article itself, not intending to turn it into a criticism of TransLink. TransLink needs feedback, and again, no one will argue that transit is perfect in this area. The problem that came up with this article, this one instance, is not that there aren't enough buses running late at night; it is that TransLink was ill-prepared for Halloween. On a regular night, I don't usually see four buses full of people going by (although I admit I'm not out that late very frequently). Vanessa's night was unfortunate, but as I said before, I don't think it is very fair to extrapolate from Halloween night alone.
 
Red frog
I have been many time to London, Paris, Tokyo, Osaka not to mention Montreal and Toronto etc. and their transit doesn't work all night long either! mind you in most of the above places clubs where open until 6 am.. so in Toronto we walked home at 6 am on Sundays in summer (the transit start late) and in the winter we stayed in cafes for a couple of hrs until transit started...
 
booty shaker ...
I like the idea of clubs staying open till 6 am and am all for it Red frog. I don't go to college to learn anything anyways and don't take any calculus to study for a real job so I have lots of time to shake my booty all night long.

When I graduate, I'll get a deadbeat government job or maybe work for TransLink and continue being a drain on the economy by taking transit so that all those people who did study calculus can support me when I move to Coquitlam and complain about not having transit out there.
 
MrNogatco
Serial Vixen is right...Berlin has the best public transit system in Europe, maybe even the world.

Vancouver is such a sad little city with its two-carriage Mickey Mouse trains and awkward, outdated buses. And some people are deluded enough to actually believe this two bit burg is a "world class" city. Yawn.
 
seth
Whether we should or shouldn't, lots of people drive to party in the lower Mainland and a few of them die every year because Transclunk wouldn't spend one thousandth of a percent of its revenues on even minimal late night service to the burbs. Cost them nothing if they moved the change from 7 minute interval service to 15 minute ahead or behind a half hour or so daily.

Years ago in Kingston, a city with the same geographical area as Vancouver, cabs cost double bus fare and acted like buses. Sometimes you'd have 3 other people in the cab. The cabbies loved it. A Surrey cab company that picked up passengers in a van and dropped them off like a bus service for a very reasonable fare was shut down by Surrey real quick - for lack of campaign donations. A criminal record check and regular mechanicals don't cost $500K per cab, the quality excuse is simple BS

In Bellingham, if you want to get into the taxi business the biggest hurdle is 5G's in insurance, mech certificate and special drivers licence. Basically anybody can do it for less than $10K invested - no trouble finding cabs.

How is it that after these taxi licenses are issued for a hundred bucks or so, they are instantly worth half a million dollars. Why can't I have one. Why not an auction. Why can't Joe Six Pack after a taxi drivers course win one of the licenses. In Vancouver /lower mainland where one can never find a cab, only after great public protest and the permission of the 4 or 5 cab companies do councils issue licenses and only to the big cab companies.

Given there is no tracking of municipal campaign donations in between elections, isn't this cronyism an obvious source of corruption and a major inconvenience to citizens. The licenses are simply shuffled over to politician's favorites in exchange for large campaign donations.

Canada is supposed to be a nation of laws yet we tolerate corrupt municipal politicians like we were a third world city.

seth
 
WTF
Missy L2K, TransLink is grossly incompetent and corrupt to boot. Even the CEO of TransLink bailed ship this week. We have a bunch of petty individuals looking out for themselves at TransLink and nobody gives a crap about transit at TransLink.

One more thing, who said anything about reducing your freedom to travel at night? Do as you please but don't whine for 24 hour transit and intrude on the privacy of others who don't want to listen to crappy diesel buses at 3 am.

If you think that you can fight off a 6'3" 300 lb violent offender, go for it and take your chances in your high heels from the transit stop or SkyTrain station to your home at 3 am. Hire a lawyer and sue TransLink after the assault if you are still around because the go with flow couldn’t give a crap losers at TransLink are negligent offering night transit at 3 am in my mind.

 
L2K
Seth, I really don't think that you can blame those deaths on TransLink. People die every year because of accidents, or because someone is severely inconsiderate and stupid. TransLink doesn't become responsible for every individual just because their service is public. Out of curiosity, what is your idea of minimal service to the burbs? That is, to where would you like to see buses running, and how often? I suspect that it isn't just the number of trips made that needs to be addressed when inquiring about late night runs, but the hours of employment during those runs; to have more buses running often would require more personnel.

Also, while I can understand the concern about politics and whatnot here, I believe your closing statement is severely out of line. What you are saying about those cities you designate as "third world" is distasteful. I also think that you will find other "nation[s] of laws" to contain corruption of some level, if you were to search for it (in some places, your effort needn't be quite so great). That isn't to say that we ought not to strive to eradicate it, but I don't know if you think that it is some easy feat, to become that idealized nation.
 
Concerned Student
The same people that approve late night hours for the clubs and bars are the same people that run Translink - the mayors and city councilors of our wonderful Greater Vancouver region. They could run skytrain later and still maintain it - instead of it going every ten or fifteen minutes, it could easily run every half an hour after a certain time with the last train leaving thirty minutes after the pubs / bars close > even if it was just out of the city from downtown to the suburbs where it could meet with some late night service or a stream of cabs.

And for those saying get a cab - a cab from downtown to Surrey would run you $40 - $80 depending on the route the cabbie takes. I've done it a few times to know. Much cheaper to take Skytrain to Surrey Central, then get a cab in Surrey Central to your home.

If it was just out of downtown to the suburbs, then maintenance work can be done on the north bound tracks. Or, they could do what they do on weekends > alternate the trains along the track. There have been hundreds of times I've ridden the trains to have them leave one station, switch over to the other lane, and travel along it until it reached another station. So there are options to dealing with this problem to have transit be more accessible later at night.

And for those who raise security questions - they have transit police, security cameras and local police, later at night, could always patrol the stops when people are expected after the closures. And if cabs are waiting in the suburbs then that too is a deterrent. You can't stop everything though. But options can be found to solve this... it shouldn't be an issue.
 
WTF
L2K, TransLink is grossly incompetent and corrupt. Even the CEO of TransLink bailed out this week. We have a bunch of petty individuals looking out for themselves at TransLink and nobody gives a crap about transit at TransLink.

One more thing, who said anything about reducing your freedom to travel at night? Do as you please but don't whine for 24 hour transit and intrude on the privacy of others who don't want to listen to crappy diesel buses at 3 am.

If you think that you can fight off a 6'3" 300 lb violent offender, go for it and take your chances in your high heels from the transit stop or SkyTrain station to your home at 3 am. Hire a lawyer and sue TransLink after the assault if you are still around because the go with flow couldn’t give a crap losers at TransLink are negligent offering night transit at 3 am in my mind.
 
brandon
trans links been taking the piss forever. people get so angry
and have hyper tension because the bus service is unbearable
i used to have to take it to work every single day. its archaic at best . wheres all the bloody money from the gas tax and property tax going . plus fairs . the service should be vastly improved
 
L2K
WTF - Thanks for removing the "Missy" from that post. I suppose it really does depend on your view of what grossly incompetent is, and the argument of changing transit for the better makes the best environment to support that description of them. So sure. I accept that, to you, they are. I still maintain that I wouldn't use those words, though. I still don't think it's fair, either, to speak for everyone at TransLink about their priorities.

When I said "transiting" earlier, I did mean public transiting. Buses still run at 3am now. Do you think we should remove them? Do you think we should remove buses running before ten o' clock at night to accommodate those people who need to sleep eight hours before their shift at six in the morning? If you are woken up by a bus going by once an hour during the middle of the night, I am truly sorry. But I think the majority of people can get by without their sleep disturbed by a bus. If you live on a major road, you probably have much worse noise than that bus to deal with. I don't think anyone would purposely plan a bus route that travels around someone's cul de sac just for kicks.

If you think you can fight off a 6'3" 300 lb violent offender, go for it and take your chances in your high heels from your home to the bus stop at any time of day. I might take you up on your proposal, if I had heels. Wouldn't dare blame it on TransLink, though. If you have stilettos, you probably have a better chance than someone wearing sneakers, anyway... But that's beside the point, I gather. If I was going home alone, in darkness, with nothing with me, then got assaulted, that would be (partially) my fault. I speak similarly to this instance (Vanessa's), I believe, as the person in trouble is not properly prepared for the night. But it should be my call. Vanessa could have planned the night better; it could have gone in any other direction that night. I could decide to announce to the world at 3am that I'm open to being confronted. I'm not asking for the right to scream fire in a theatre. I'm saying that it should be reasonably possible for me to take a bus if I want, if TransLink accepts the responsibility of providing the public with an adequate public transportation system.
 
Steven M.
Serial Vixen wrote: "It depresses me to no end knowing & experiencing a thoughtful city (Berlin) that wants people to drink, party and not drive home while the green-politically correct city (Vancouver) could not care less if people get killed because of intoxicated drivers on the road. If there was a proper mass transit system the people from the burbs would not have to drive."

Well maybe it will depress you a little less when you realize that Berlin's population base is more than 5 times the size of Vancouver, and that Translink, remarkably efficient as it is, is still over a billion dollars in debt, so it has little choice but to operate the system according to usage patterns. But don't romanticize Berlin's system too much, as they're currently in the process of reducing the service, system-wide.

And your absurd argument that drivers must drive drunk because of lack of public transit options is a rather silly bait-comment and an obvious false dichotomy. Have you really lived your entire life and never encountered the concept of the designated driver? Taxis? Simply not drinking to the point of intoxication?
 
Missed The Point
I think most of you missed Vanessa's point. When Translink know that there is going to be an influx of passengers suck as like on Halloween or when The Fire Works at English Bay are happening they should extend the hours to help people get home. This would be in their benefit as they would recieve more revenue as people would be using it. Plus they would feel the added bonus of making sure that people got home safely. We wouldnt want to people drinking and driving would we??

-Jennifer
 
Maplefudge
The skytrain should run until 3 AM at least.
 
WTF
L2K, you're a good sport and debater, so I'm going to make this my last comment to let you have the final say. I can't speak for everyone in this city but can speak for at least 50 people in and around my residence; they would love nothing more than to redirect the crappy 99 B-Line diesel buses past the Mayor's residence to give him a taste of what we have to contend with as far as noise goes, and the other traffic doesn’t even compare or cause any concern, even the ambulances which are relatively infrequent.

The screaming, rumbling whining and hissing diesel buses are the wrong specification for use at any time in Vancouver because the grossly incompetent losers at TransLink bought the cheapest buses out there. Now, when people complain, the losers hide under their desks. Moreover, since the 99 B-Line operates on a trolley bus route, a lot of very incompetent and stupid people at the COV and TransLink can take credit for the mess.

TransLink is broke and the last thing that we need are any more empty diesel buses on the road to pander to students who aren’t resourceful enough to get around by any other way. If anything, on many routes, shutting down transit after 7 pm as in some parts of Australia would be ideal! Hope you graduate and manage to buy an electric car to get off transit before you turn 30.
 
Many Selfish Comments
I'm a shift worker and many many other people are too. I can't believe how selfish some of the comments here are about restricting transit service. Like shutting the bus down after 7 pm because the 9-5 shift people have gotten home ok. What about so many of us who work in the restaurants in the evenings that serve you self-absorbed creeps. I am I supposed to use my minimum wage pay to take a $40 taxi home each night? Or do you just want me to shut up and get another job? If the latter, just who do you think is going to work downtown in the evening? I need the job. And I need to take the bus to get home from work. As it stands now, the transit service in the evening is lousy and should be improved ... for the people who want to have a night out, and for those of who take the bus to get to work.
 
not so selfish ...
MSC, my mother was a single mother working as a waitress raising two kids and it stings to listen to a sob story about you not being able to make it in life without transit. My mother was traumatized taking transit. Eventually, she saved enough to buy her first car and hasn't taken transit in 40 years.

What about people on bus routes? Isn't it selfish to make their life hell for you to have the luxury of 24 hour subsidized transit?
 
L2K
Missed The Point - I understand that's what Vanessa was trying to say. I would like to say that I disagree with her use of devices in getting her message across, though, trying to evoke sympathy in storytelling, and specifically mentioning a miserable Medusa whose sad situation has little to do with the actual transit situation of which is being spoken. I feel that her article would have been better and more clearly received had she stuck more to her point. That was my impression, in any case. When she began the paragraph that reads, "Unfortunately, TransLink’s lack of response to the community’s late-night transit needs is not limited to Halloween," she opened the article up to include transit service in general (or at least for "every Friday and Saturday night"). And from there, discussion goes to wherever the people dictate.

WTF - I sympathize with the noise levels. I do think that it is simply part of the consideration and tolerance involved in living in the city, though. If it were possible now, I do wish that the buses would be silent. Not many people benefit from them being particularly noisy.

With regard to your other point, I think it is quite resourceful of students to be taking public transit as opposed to driving around. There are many, many people who attend school in the area, and that number of cars on the road would be such a severe blow to the environment. Granted, it is possible for a number of them to arrive at school via walking or cycling, but that number is relatively small and doing so is time-consuming, and dangerous at night. Students would have a difficult time attending classes in the evening, or simply being able to take advantage of the resources offered to them on campus. Again, as I've said before, I am presupposing that TransLink ought to provide the public with reasonable access to public transit as needed. If you disagree with this presupposition, as you seem to do, then I guess you just don't support the same idea of this service, and such a difference is too fundamental for us to come to an agreement, I think. Yes, it is still the student's choice if he or she wishes to enroll in a class at that time or to go out, but here lies the question of whether or not they should have to forego this because of transit, or if transit should support them.

If not public transit, should people drive? Would you "force" people to try to purchase, instead of a $xx transit pass, a car? It would be brilliant if I could manage to buy an electric car. It just doesn't seem very feasible at the moment. As for shutting down transit after 7PM, if people were segregated into areas that were either active or inactive, perhaps it would work. However, people seem to lead too diverse lives for this to be effective. Too many people rely on public transit after dinnertime. Ah, there's a good idea for zone restructuring! Everyone who has no life after seven o' clock, or who has the luxury of not bothering anyone with need of transit service, can simply be designated as zone x, and there will no service to that area after hours.

My final note to you is of thanks for the discussion, and objection to your assumptions you appear to have about me. At best, I suppose I can hope for crappy diesel buses to quickly become a thing of the past, in favour of something a little more pleasing for you.
 
BikerCK
bikes for the win 24/7 baby!
 
to "not so selfish"
Of course many people who take transit and don't have a car would eventually like to have one ... just like your mother the waitress took transit until she could afford to get her own car. But until a car was affordable to her, transit was probably her only option besides walking home late at night (not a good idea for women in 2009). Despite what you believe, there are many people who, for good reason, ARE dependent on transit for work (aversive as it may be to some). This is not just my sentiment. A few years ago, the NPA party in Vancouver played a large role in keeping the transit workers locked out for more than half a year. Many people lost their jobs because the commute was too expensive. Some businesses closed because of the lockout. The social darwinists like you probably had little sympathy for these folks and were happy because you didn't have to hear buses in your neighbourhood. But the voters didn't forget how cold hearted this was, and the NPA got trounced in the next Vancouver election in large part because of it. There are many people working at night in service jobs in the evening that you probably rarely think about who cannot afford a car at this time, do not feel safe walking home in the dark (and rightfully so), and depend on transit. The fact that your momma hated the bus and got her own car is not a compelling argument to restrict night-time transit for others that need it.
 
not so selfish replies
Despite my contempt for TransLink, you'd be surprised to learn that I support transit, and if CEO of TransLink, I would lower transit fares to $2 for all zones and would extend the U-Pass to all colleges and universities as I believe that transit's primary role is to provide affordable transit to students and seniors.

Discrimination by TransLink is unacceptable whether it is against people on bus routes, students who don't go to UBC or merchants who are in the way and are trampled by TransLink in the rush to extend rapid transit to Richmond for the Olympics.

If you agree that discrimination by TransLink is unacceptable, I’ll concede that some night time transit may be worthwhile provided that limits are imposed to keep transit noise and pollution levels reasonable.
 
Morty
The people comparing transit to welfare realize that highway traffic is even more heavily subsidized, right? Gas taxes and vehicle registration don't come close to covering the costs of maintaining our road system. People who use transit pay taxes too, so why shouldn't they be able to expect decent, reliable service that reflects their needs?
 
ec
Morty, your logic is terribly flawed and ignorance is bliss! Drivers pay fuel tax on top of all the other taxes paid by both transit users and drivers. For drivers it's like taking money out of their right pocket and putting in their left pocket when it comes to paying for highway and other road use. In contrast, welfare transit is subsidized by drivers who hand over money to the government which then hands the money over to transit.

Take a look at the TransLink 2008 Annual Report on page 2, that $262 million in “fuel tax” revenue is from drivers paying taxes directly to transit without any deductions on their tax forms for not using transit, my deluded friend:

www.translink.ca/.../2008%20TransLink%20Annual%20Report.ashx
 
ec
Morty, besides my previous comment, who pays more in taxes to maintain the roads, a student who doesn’t’ have a job or someone who drives? Comparing the average salary of transit users to the average salary of drivers, taxes paid by transit users are a drop in the bucket and don’t even begin to pay for the transit services that they use. Transit users are literally on the dole and have drivers to thank for their transit.
 
to ec
The money put into transit is a drop in the bucket, a pittance, compared to what is continuously pumped into building new streets, highways, tunnels, bridges; repairing and maintaining them, clearing the snow off them, and so on. Fuel taxes don't come close to paying for this. And while its true that many drivers are subsidizing transit they don't use, there are many city transit folks who don't drive, never intend to use government funded mega projects like the new highway to Whistler, the Port Mann bridge, and so on, and who are subsidizing something they don't use ... a far more expensive road system for the welfare of car drivers. So transit may be welfare to you, but compared to the amount of government tax dollars that are constantly put toward facilitating your car driving, it's poorly funded.
 
MrNogatco
@Steven M.

Berlin's population base is not 5 times the size of Vancouver. It's metro pop is about 5 million (Vancouver's is 2 million).

And they are not reducing service system wide in Berlin. There is a problem with the S-Bahn breaking system and S-bahn service is temporarily being reduced, while bus, tram, subway and commuter rail service is being increased to make up for the reduction in S-Bahn service.
 
ec
To "to ec", graduate tops in your class in finance, learn to read a finacial statement, get an engineering degree and maybe you'll understand. Your arguments are irrelevant and stupid.
 
to ec
Despite the finance and engineering degrees that you imply you have (or that are necessary to understand you), your rejoinder of

"Your arguments are irrelevant and stupid."

sure doesn't say much about your debating (or social) skills.
 
ec
To "to ec", excuse my harshness. I've directed you to a link where it clearly states that drivers pay TransLink $263 million annually and pointed out that the income or ability of transit users to finance roads is limited due to their limited income. Sorry for being so difficult to understand. Call TransLink and ask TransLink how long it could operate without government assistance and then call anyone who isn't on welfare and drives how long he or she could keep driving without government assistance. Maybe then it will make more sense to you.

G'day


----------------------------------------
rejoinder
One entry found.


Main Entry: re ·join ·der
Pronunciation: \ri-?jo?in-d?r\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English rejoiner, from Anglo-French rejoinder, from rejoinder, verb
Date: 15th century
1 : the defendant's answer to the plaintiff's replication
2 : reply; specifically : an answer to a reply

 
post grad
Absuhfuk’nlootly, money spent on roads and highways dwarfs money spent on transit, so does money spent of schools, water treatment, sewers and hospitals ”¦ what are you going on about, Taxpayer? You are utterly confused and deluded. Most transit users pay dick in taxes and don’t deserve to demand dick from those who do.

As previously stated, roads hospitals, sewers and water are paid by taxpayers above the poverty line for society, including you. Give your head a fk’n shake.
 
like we need more late night transit ...
Man robbed and stabbed on Fourth Avenue
Sun November 15, 2009 4:02 PM
VANCOUVER - A man was robbed of his wallet and slashed in the neck Saturday night on West Fourth Avenue near MacDonald Street.

The man, 36, is recovering from non-life-threatening injuries, Vancouver Police Const. Jana McGuinness said in a press release.

The man called 911 himself and was helped by several people who discovered him lying bleeding at a bus stop, McGuinness said.
 
FML
So what? Install a mandatory curfew at 11pm for all citizens then? Let's never go out at night again! Got a job that goes to 10? Too bad! Get home before the hour's up! What next? Nobody should be allowed to eat junk food, or smoke, or drink alcohol, ever. How about we just start marching in uniform tan outfits with our hands in the air at a crisp 45 degree angle!
 
yup, late transit cuts down on assaults ...
15-year-old girl sexually assaulted in Port Coquitlam
November 21, 2009 1:02 PM

A 15 year-old girl was sexually assaulted near the Port Coquitlam bus loop at about 1 a.m. Saturday morning, according to RCMP.

The young girl was walking from the bus loop on Kingsway Avenue between Tyner Street and Kelly Avenue when she was approached by a male who pushed her into the bushes and assaulted her, RCMP spokesman Sgt. Peter Theissen said in a statement.
 
 
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