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Gwynne Dyer: Climategate and disbelief

By Gwynne Dyer,

Last November we had “Climategate”, in which somebody hacked into the e-mails at the University of East Anglia.  This person  discovered that Professor Phil Jones, head of the university’s Climate Research Unit, had been trying to exclude scientific papers he regarded as flawed from being considered by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).

“I can’t see either (paper)...being in the next (IPCC) report,” Jones wrote in 2004. “Kevin (one of Jones’s colleagues) and I will keep them out somehow – even if we have to redefine what peer-review literature is!” Bad Phil! Slap wristies!

Scientists can be rather unworldly, but within their own little world they are highly competitive and capable of considerable nastiness toward their competitors. (Q: Why are scientific politics so nasty? A: Because the stakes are so small.) It is not clear whether Phil Jones was being serious or only mock-serious in his e-mail, but he certainly could have been planning to do exactly what he said.

Jones was forced to step down as head of the CRU; the hacker (probably a Russian) walked away counting his money. And the blogosphere lit up like a Christmas tree with claims that this incident proved that climate change was a fraud.

Now we have “Glaciergate,” in which it is revealed that a prediction in the last IPCC report that the Himalayan glaciers could all disappear by 2035 was wildly exaggerated.

Some of the biggest glaciers in the Himalayas are so massive and so high that it would actually take them 300 years to melt.

It was a grievous error, and how it got into the IPCC’s 2007 report only compounded the offence. It was based on a casual remark by a single Indian scientist, Syed Hasnain, that found its way into a World Wildlife Fund study (which gave it the respectability of appearing in print), and thence into the IPCC’s 2007 report.

Very unprofessional, and particularly so on the part of IPCC chairman Rajendra Pachauri, who initially dismissed the work of the geologists who challenged the IPCC’s assertion about glaciers as “voodoo science”.  

The blogosphere went wild–and a recent opinion survey in the United States showed that only 57 percent of adult Americans accept the scientific evidence for global warming, down from 77 percent two years ago.

Worse yet, only 36 percent of Americans believe that human activity is the primary cause of the warming.

People who know science and scientists will be disappointed both by the behaviour of Jones and by the glacier incident, but they will not be surprised. This sort of thing happens from time to time, because we are dealing with human beings. But it does not (as the denial brigade insists) discredit the whole enterprise in which they are engaged.

Not all the Himalayan glaciers will be gone by 2035, but a lot of the ones at lower altitudes will–including some of those that keep the great rivers of Asia full in the summertime. That is important, because when they are gone, people start to starve. And we have all met people who are clever in theory but stupid in practice, like Foolish Phil.

The weight of the evidence rests overwhelmingly on the side of those who argue that climate change is real and dangerous. Ninety-seven or ninety-eight percent of scientists active in the relevant fields are convinced of it; all but a couple of the world’s 200 governments have been persuaded of it; public opinion accepts it almost everywhere except in parts of the “Anglosphere”. The United States, and to a lesser extent Australia, Britain and Canada, are the last bastions of denial.

From being the least ideological countries  50 years ago, when much of the rest of the planet was drunk on Marxist theories, these countries have become the most ideological today. Disbelief in climate change has been turned into an ideological badge worn by the right, and evidence is no longer relevant.

This wouldn’t matter much if the countries in question were Bolivia, Belgium, and Burma, but one of them is really important. Without the United States, we are not going to get a worthwhile global agreement on cutting greenhouse gas emissions. It is starting to look like we won’t have the United States on board.

President Barack  Obama will do what he can, but his chance of getting even a very modest bill on emissions cuts through the Senate this year has just dwindled to near zero. The American public, worried about its jobs and its healthcare, doesn’t want to hear about it–and if it does hear, it doesn’t believe.

If the United States is out of the game, then China is out too. Without the participation of the world’s two biggest polluters, jointly accounting for almost half of the human race’s CO2 emissions, there’s not much point in trying for another Kyoto-style deal, even a much better one. If you have any money lying around, put it on geoengineering techniques for keeping the heat down. We’re going to need them.

Gwynne Dyer is a London-based independent journalist whose articles are published in 45 countries.

Comments

Dave McK
I'll not address the speculation in your article, and you did miss a few links in the chain but I'll just address the conclusion.
There is no reason to believe that any glaciers will be gone by 2035.
Hasnain mentioned it over the phone to New Scientist who printed it which was lit upon by WWF and shown to IPCC. Dr.Lal admits he knew it was ridiculous but left it in because it would get attention and motivate policy makers to take action. (political fiction for an agenda).
Despite the serious protests by real glaciologists, it was used as a poster child of the fear franchise, knowingly fraudulent.
Whereupon, Dr. Pachauri got Dr. Hasnain in his employ through TERI and together they successfully solicited half a million dollars in funds to study the vanishing glaciers. They are extremely opportunistic and rapacious beyond anything in history- the carbon derivatives that make their eyes light up with that lotto look were expected to eventually exceed the value of all the money in the world! That's the stuff hollywood movies are made of.
 
HerbM
It's a long standing and perfidious pattern with many more 'incidents' than those you mention however.

Stations left out that change the results. Lost data. Hockey stick deception. "Reworking" the data when the result don't show what they want (NASA and CRU.) Suspect and secret computer programs with ad hoc code (to get a certain result)...the list goes on and on and on.

SurfaceStations.com shows how bad just the US stations are -- imaging the rest of the world.

The list grows and grows. If "consensus" is built on this -- and science IS NOT done by consensus -- then that consensus was fraudulently obtained.

Maybe none of this proves AGW WRONG, but it certainly shows that it hasn't been proven correct.

Real scientists must go back and actually START to do the science now.
 
Martin Ackroyd
Read the emails. (Google ) . I assume that Gwynne Dyer has not read them or he would not have written this nonsense.

Anyone who reads the emails in context, not to mention the HARRY_READ_ME.txt file, cannot but admit, in their heart of hearts, that a very ugly picture is revealed of falsification of results, victimization of scientists who question these results, manipulation of the scientific review process, conspiracy to circumvent Freedom of Information laws, plus bumbling incompetence resulting in the loss of valuable temperature data.

And these were the members of the "Hockey Team" climate scientists at the heart of writing the IPCC reports.

Gwynne Dyer and other apologists for the Man-Made Global Warming Religion are the real "Deniers" who are having great difficulty coming to terms with having to admit that their Religion is all a hoax based on falsified results.

 
Peter Main
You are quite right when you say "But it does not ... discredit the whole enterprise...".

The thing is that the whole AGW theory always was nonsense and was discredited (amongst thinking people) a long time ago. Basically the IPCC says, the warming cannot be explained by natural causes so it must be man-made CO2. In other words, we don't know what it is so we'll blame it on man. And, with huge amounts of money and political power, the AGW gang have built a massive edifice covered in plate armour. The reason the 'denier brigade', as you call us, lights up the internet like a Christmas tree is because Climategate, Glaciergate (and the latest, Disastergate, on which you have not yet reported) are the first chinks in that armour that are being widely reported. Because of these events it is no longer heresy for mainstream media to suggest that there might be imperfections in the edifice. Soon, you and other 'warmists' (well, you called me a denier) will realise that it's not just a few imperfection but that the whole foundation is rotten.
 
AJ
I have always enjoyed your comments and documentaries but I must say I don't understand the blind acceptance of so many people around this issue.

Please remember the CO2 is not a pollutant, it is esential to all life on earth, without it plant and all life will fail. That it has been turned into a pollutant is mind boggling. Also, climate has always changed.

As I understand it, based on a number of media reports, CO2 accounts for 380/1,000,000 (380PPM) = 0.00038 % of the atmosphere and of that man contributes 5% of the total. One forest fire can wipe out all of Canada's CO2 cuts in a week. Also, weather historians tell us that CO2 increases follow increases in temperature, not lead it. As one person said, "I don't know which is more arrogant, to think that man has caused global warming or that we can stop it".

Compare that to the fact that the atmosphere contains almost 95% water, which is a far more significant GHG, are we going to regulate that next?

The other thing that does not make sense is that based on maybe 30 years worth of now suspect data, we humans are ready to make such major changes that will have an adverse affect on our lives, based on someone's expectations about what might happen in the future. Man's predications for the future have never proven to be correct, before WW1, people were predicting a peaceful and idealistic 20th century. They really got that right.

As has been commented in many places, man has thrived in warmer climates, longer growing seasons mean more food not less, less fuel needs to be burned to provide heat in winter. There is no proof that warmer weather will have any of the disaterous effects being predicted. The problem is not the weather, but the governments who try to keep a hold on their own people, who create most of the problems their people live with due to their own greed and selfishness.

The main issue reveiled by "climate gate" is that when the scientists tried to compare their thorey with reality it failed. So rather then develop a new thorey as any proper scientist would have done, they changed the facts by using real data instead of their proxy data where it suited their purpose. The temperature proxy data showed a cooling trend, while the actual temperatures went up. From where I sit that disproves the theory.

As far as Glaciergate is concerned, the IPCC knew from it's own researchers that the 2035 date was wrong but they made a decision to publish it anyway to get the desired impact with the media and governments. Most news outlets would not be able to get any milage out of most of the content of the IPCC's reports, but it was really easy to get headlines with a major disaster like the glaciers disappearing in 2035 or sooner.

The final knife in the back is that all the discussions about cap and trade is that it does nothing to reduce CO2 emissions, it just moves money around. If it did not promise to cost so much it would be good for a real laugh.
 
miguel
If many nations cut emission levels, but the U.S. and/or China don't, we would see a lot of industry relocate back to the U.S.; something that may be in the back of their minds.
Miguel
 
DM
"The weight of the evidence rests overwhelmingly on the side of those who argue that climate change is real and dangerous"

These are words only, why don't you state the proof. By the way, predictions are not allowed as proof. Here's the logic most of the AGW supporters use, it goes like this; "Himalayan glaciers will be gone by 2035" => therefore global warming is real.

Another good one is; "storms, extreme weather events will increase" => therefore global warming is real and dangerous.

If you bore down and use your head for something other than a hat rack, all the so called "overwhelming proof" disappears.
 
seth
he sad part of all this is there is a practical and quick way out of this crisis with nuclear power.

Warmists believe we are less than ten years away from a civilization ending peak oil and climate crisis, but also believe we are too dependent on oil imports, and dirty and deadly coal power production which kills several million and sickens hundred's of millions of people worldwide every year, while deniers will only agree that imports and pollution are problems.

A worldwide investment in 10000 new nuclear reactors would be paid for by and would end fossil fuel use, eliminate most air pollution saving millions of lives, end the global warming/ peak oil problem with a 100% elimination of GHG's within a ten year time frame, is a great investment making the economy more efficient, a wonderful job producing economy boost, requires only a small part of our industrial capacity, and pays for itself in less than three years.

Deniers and Warmists both could embrace it.

With mass production nuclear power costs drop to under $1B Gw much less expensive than coal or natural gas generation and 10% the cost of the cheapest renewable. Asian reactor builds now around $1.5 B Gw are trending to the $1B level.

Nuclear fuel supply and waste issues are resolved with already operating and well understood fast reactors.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-kirsch/climate-bill-ignores-our_b_22...

Canada could do its part in the global warming fight with a $150B nominal investment in nuclear power paid for by quickly weaning us off our $100B annual fossil fuel bill.

The US with an $2500B nominal investment in nuclear power paid for by quickly weaning itself off its $1000B annual fossil fuel bill could do the same. Unfortunately it is crippled by inefficient private power companies, a biased Nuclear Rejection Commission and corrupt and litigious political and legal systems, quadrupling nuclear costs and time frames.

By rimming the border with AECL reactors, Canada's very efficient public power companies could make $trillions selling the US nuke power at premium rates, making publicly owned Atomic Energy Canada the world leader in nuclear power, and generating a huge high paying job producing Canadian industry.

This an incredible opportunity for Canada and a lesson to the world in how to get it done.

The biggest problem is a nuclear conversion will put Big Oil out of business in less than ten years and they buy a lot of politicians with their campaign donations.

We need to calling up our politicians and demanding to know the reason for their inaction. Why are they wasting precious time and treasure on silly not so "renewable" projects and even dumber tax schemes like cap n'trade and green taxes.

Are their campaign donations so precious they are choosing to end civilization rather than get off Big Oil's gravy train.
seth
 
KS
It never fails to surprise me how politically volatile this issue becomes. (Never mind how critical the commentary is). Personally, I think Dyer wrote a good article that addresses the uncertainty of this science well, which this is precisely what the problem is.

AJ: I don't believe any one is arguing that CO2 is a "pollutant". In high concentrations, even oxygen will kill you. The vast amounts of CO2 that are being released from massive sinks (the ocean, forests, oil deposits) is leading to redeposition of high levels of carbon compounds in the atmosphere, not just carbon dioxide. To suggest that there is no impact from this activity is incredibly naive. To predict that the planet will melt as a result is perhaps alarmist. Regardless, I think it is VERY important that we pay attention.

By suggesting that the scientists doing emissions and climate research, and bodies like the IPCC who assess the results, are part of a mass conspiracy theory is not doing any one any favors. It undermines the enormous task of assessing this research and making predictions based on computer simulated MODELS, denigrates the humanity of these scientists and will do nothing to further the need for accountability. The reason the results are controversial is because they are predictions. No one knows with certainty what the result will be but can make a good guess.

Regardless, it doesn't seem like any one is planning to take the necessary steps to mitigate escalating levels of carbon anyway and most of our proposed "solutions" are garbage, e.g. cap and trade.

With this kind of public reaction to science we will find out the outcome from endless use of finite resources and our redistribution of them soon enough - not as a computer simulation but in the real world.


 
Cassandra22
And, here they come, lock step...

“It is hard to convey just how selective you have to be to dismiss the evidence for climate change. You must climb over a mountain of evidence to pick up a crumb: a crumb which then disintegrates in the palm of your hand. You must ignore an entire canon of science, the statements of the world's most eminent scientific institutions, and thousands of papers published in the foremost scientific journals.”

~ George Monbiot
 
Bryan Byrne
Belief in climate change has been turned into an ideological badge worn by the left, and evidence has never been relevant.
 
Casey Verdant
Climate Chief Pachauri has ruined his reputation in the scientific community and the public-at-large by pushing the faulty Himalayan-glacier estimates. If the IPCC is to restore its reputation and become an effective advocate for climate change legislation, they need a new leader and more transparent research reporting mechanisms. Himalayagate cannot happen again.

Interested in climate change, clean energy, or energy efficiency? Go to http://www.greencollareconomy.com for sustainability white papers and the largest b2b green directory on the web.
 
Bill K.
I am disappointed Gwynne. I thought you an independent thinker. It is not difficult for a person of reasonable intelligence to determine that we are being lied to by the IPCC and others and even when told the truth the truth is spun to support the lies. CO2 may be good for about 1 degree of warming. The major factors affecting climate are elsewhere - solar, ENSO events. Why not read up and report back?
 
Steve Jones
I don't claim to be able to judge the science. What I notice though is that the majority of eminent scientists believe in man-made climate change while the eminent deniers are in politics and ecnomics. That should tell us something.
Denial may grow in coming years, because the general public simply gets tired of an issue and wants to forget. Climate change is out, Haiti is in, as an example.
Anyway, it's clear not much is going to be done and the world is eventually going to test the theory in real life.
 
Ghenghis Khan and his brother Don
Well Bill K. Bryan, DM Dave McK, Peter Main and all you others who think you've done all the proper research and reading, am I ever glad you're finally giving us the objective low down on anthropogenic global warming. If it weren't for people like you providing us gullible people with pristine, unbiased, in-depth and detailed studies and analyses stemming from such incontrovertible sources such as "Fair and Balanced" Fox News, proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that humans play no significant role in global warming, I would have almost thrown in my lot with the climate change conspirators. I mean, why would I believe thousands of scientists and researchers who've actually taken the pains to look into these questions when I can get the answers from people of "reasonable intelligence" such as Bill K. who can boldly state that - contrary to the less astute Gwynne Dyer - he's no dupe... I'm sure Bill K. came up with the figure for CO2 being responsible for "about 1 degree of global warming" by means of repeatable experiments involving brewing beer in his basement. You can't tell how much I am reassured by this. Was that using p=0.05 or 0.01 as level of significance Biil?
And then there's AJ doubting whether or not warming will actually have anything but a positive effect on food production. It would be nice if people could imagine that the whole world isn't like Lethbridge or Winterpeg. Have u ever heard of the equator? By some estimates (based on serious studies, imagine that!), a 2 degree increase in temperature would lead to an over 20% drop in crop production in India. Hmmm... over a billion people to feed...huge drop in food production... I don't see a problem, do you?

I'd actually be curious to know how much of you armchair experts would actually know how science is carried out. And for all of you enlightened minds who think that Gwynne formed his opinion by studious readings of the National Enquirer or by analyzing the obituaries in the National Post think again: he may have actually read some of the studies most of you are lambasting sight unseen and met several of the most important scientists and thinkers on the planet before coming to his conclusions.

To all you 'denialists' : what will you tell your children should your irrefutable conclusions prove to be hot air?

Have a nice day.

?????? and ???
 
Jib Halyard
Interesting point Dyer makes about the English-speaking nations. The right in those countries really does seem to have changed places with the far left of the 60s and 70s, and have become shrill activist types more interested in ideological purity than reality. They have very little in common with the practical-minded conservatives of 30 years ago.
 
Dave Sivler
Let me ask you this, if we hacked into the emails of groups such as the Science and Environmental Policy Project and the George C. Marshall Institute we wouldnt find them tweaking their data to confirm their denial of man made climate change? Of course they do, that is the problem when science gets wedded to politics. That doesnt make the science any less real or the issue less salient. It's just that politics likes a certain outcome, when of course (especially in such a broad category of science) there rarely is such a consenus. But, let me ask you this. If there was a meteor hurtling towards Earth, and it had a 1 in 10 chance of destroying half the life on this planet, how much effort would you expect the worlds governments to expend deflecting it? Now, are you confident that there is less then a 10% chance that the 97% of the worlds scientists are right? What leel of risk will you accept?
 
strat_83
Mr. Dyer,
You need to do a bit of research on how glaciers melt.
A large lake can melt inside a glacier (I have no idea why or how it works: I'm not a hydrologist but I'm studying.
When a chunk of ice the size of Rhode Island breaks off the Antarctic Ice Shelf, I think that we don't know as much as we thought we did.
Some of us are actually learning and thinking.
I live in the Yukon and I can see the changes from year to year.
 
Steve Jones
Dave Sivler asks us to consider a 10% chance that a rogue meteor might destroy planet earth. I fear that most first-worlders would accept those odds if the alternative is to give up consumer culture as the centre of many people's lives. I hope I'm wrong.
 
B. Honest
Climate change denial may make people feel better about what they want to carry on doing, but it's hardly necessary.
The worst effects are at least forty years away and it will be those in the third world who suffer the most. Canada may even be a net beneficiary as the atmosphere warms.
We're not going to change our ways for people not born yet, even if they are of our bloodline. Our instincts don't run that deep.
 
DM
No skeptic denies climate change, there has always been climate change, the skepticism is in the degree and the cause. The whole premise of man made global warming lies in the assumption that the recent warming is unprecedented. To make that claim a handful of paleoclimatologists had to eliminated the MWP. Briffa did it with one tree, the most famous tree in history. It was the only tree that gave the results they needed, yet 50 years of data from multiple trees was discarded when it didn't show the warming they needed.

I ask you, read the emails and the Harry text files

You don't have to be a scientist to see what's going on, if you were sitting on a jury and were given insight into that type of science you would dismiss it all as totally unreliable. If you didn't you would be grossly negligent.
 
Skywatcher
So does this mean if one doesn't believe in AGW, then one might believe in HA ARP?
 
Think Rational
This is the "smoking causes cancer" debate - Version 2.0. The industries that are threatened the greatest are the most vocal critics of the science of climate change. There are no limits to the lengths they will go to to guard their profits.

All professions have their less-than-virtuous members. Do we dismiss the entire medical community when a handful of doctors are negligent or unscrupulous? Of course not!

Sigh....
 
Ghenghis Khan and his brother Don
It never ceases to amaze me how the denialists will repeat ad nauseum how much scientists are falsifying the data to butter their bread”¦a huge make work scandal. The assumption is that the "irregularities" that have popped up are part of a conspiracy among scientists make sure that climate research keeps getting lots of funding. However, it is just that: an assumption. Although academic scientists can make mistakes and be prone to the weaknesses of various vices just like any other human being (greed being but one of them), this is true for anyone.

On the other hand, the petrochemical industry has a much huuuuuuger stake in this than the couple of thousand climate researchers that are allegedly out to pull a fast one on us. The stakes are astronomically high in the petrochemical industry*, orders of magnitude higher than in academia. So if I were to be suspicious any group of people, if I were to be on the lookout for anyone actively at work subverting the "Truth" to prevent losing their immense profits, this is where I would look first. Not at a heterogeneous group of academics from hundreds of countries who have little vested interest in this outcome. Compared to what is probably going on in the backrooms of various world petrochemical companies (among many others), any academic finagling is micro-near-beer.

That's just my 2 tí¶grí¶gs
Cheers

Ghenghis and Don (brother)


*Exxon 2009 revenues: $442,851,000,000; profits: $45,220,000,000. Source: Fortune 500.
 
DJ BALL
Hasn't the climate on planet earth always changed ?
Pre-humans ?
I am concerned with real environmental issues and i don't
think they will be addressed by paying Al Gore &Co. Carbon credits.
The swine flu hoax pandemic, the 911 false flag and many other exposed scams have me believing that this Climate Gate/Glacier Gate might just be another ruse by the global elite.

 
Ghengis Khan and his brother Don
Yes DJ Ball, climate has changed, it's just that this time the rate of change (warming) during the last century or so has increased alarmingly. Record temperatures, Arctic ice cap melting, retreat of glaciers are signs of this. It is generally agreed upon by scientists and experts that this is due to human activity. This despite the reaction of denialists who, based on tenuous evidence, claim this isn't true.
DJ Ball, I'd like to know what you mean by 'real environmental issues'. Isn't the fate of the earth real enough for you?
I would suggest you not base your opinions solely on 'conspiracy theory' web sites if you want to get a good pictures of things.

Cheers

Ghenghis and Don
 
Dan Cummings
Gwynne, rather than maintain the healthy skepticism which befits any quality journalist, you are instead hanging onto a belief based now on 'faith' which originally came to you based on 'evidence' now discredited. I would urge you to read this new report on the manipulation of data sources http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/images/stories/papers/originals/surfac... and would further urge you to read the content from various sources found at http://www.newswatchcanada.ca/climategate.html before letting your 'faith' deny the evidence of massive, multi-faceted fraud and bad scientific method which are being used for political and ideological purposes to collapse the world economy. It's time to write a balanced review of the faulty science and the litany of proofs which points to the many reasons it's faulty, or stay quiet about something you can only rhetoricize about, and apparently don't want to understand.
 
Ghenghis Khan and his brother Don
Dan, why are you assuming that Gwynne isn't maintaining a 'healthy skepticism' regarding this issue? Just because he hasn't come to the same probably erroneous conclusions as yours? Do you actually believe that the sources you are citing have a greater, more privileged access to the "Truth" than the sources Gwynne cites (and the hundreds of sources he has read)? I just checked out newswatchcanada.ca. You can't be serious? You attack scientific theories and studies by pointing us to an anonymous 'pseudo news service' that just points to other sites which supports its own point of view. They don't even have the guts to publish their names, for Buddha's sake (at least the "scienceandpublicpolicy.org" has the decency to do so). Any Bozo can publish a web site, and try to make people believe what they want them to believe using bogus rhetoric. Most of these wise guys try to point out errors in the science (there will always be some errors) but somehow they never seem to be able to find any real studies that would fundamentally contradict the basic science upon which the current consensus on AGW is based. Show us some real studies which prove that global warming is not due to human activity, then we'll talk. I certainly welcome debate, healthy criticism, studies/articles that point out mistakes, errors, etc. based on facts not hearsay.
Should we have an internet poll on how to build a bridge? Why not? I'm sure everyone thinks their opinion is as valid as anyone else's. We don't do it for bridges, even though they sometimes collapse, so why should we do it for AGW? The future of the planet should be based on real science not on lobbyists (all very unbiased I'm sure) and opinion polls.
Until you've read all the science yourself, Dan, and not just the junk pseudo science being proffered about, perhaps you should heed your own advice and keep quiet.

May the sun brighten your lives

Ghenghis and Don
 
Richard Pauli
Hey Vancouver, Hows that cold weather coming for the Olympic Winter games ?
 
Ghenghis Khan and his brother Don
Richard, please don't confuse weather with climate.... lol

Cheers

Ghenghis and Don
 
DM
There is nothing wrong with healthy skepticism, it's science at it's best. Many of the lead scientists that are convinced of AGW are now realizing that they have to be more open, transparent and be more willing to state their uncertainty.

Much of the skepticism was born because of the lack of the above. Global warming advocates and scientists became arrogant and ridiculed anyone who disagreed. They declared the science settled, when clearly it was not.

I think things would have turned out totally different if they would have been much more modest in their assessment and used reasoning instead of alarmism to convince the world to move away from fossil fuels.

Moving away from fossil fuels is not easy, if it was it would have been done already. Don't forget that every improvement in the human condition is because of their use. People all over the world are still dying from poverty, not global warming. It's going to take lots of economic development to improve their condition. Unfortunately that takes energy and lots of it.

The National Academy of Science has produced some good studies on meeting future energy needs. The documents are a good insight into the difficulties of providing economies with the required energy.

Many from the green movement just don't understand the complexity, they think riding a bicycle and putting a solar panel on the roof will solve the problem.
 
J_M
Ghenghis Khan and his brother Don, I hope some of these will satisfy your need for real science:
Professor Mojib Latif of the IPCC has said himself that much of the recent warming could be attributed to ocean currents. “a significant share of the warming we saw from 1980 to 2000 and at earlier periods in the 20th Century was due to these cycles – perhaps as much as 50 percent.” He is an ardent believer in AGW and does not want his current research to be see as anything but supporting AGW. However, his research seems to indicate otherwise.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/01/11/ipcc-scientist-global-cooling-head...
NASA has reported that the Antarctic is losing ice and if all the ice melted it could sea levels 197ft (60m). At NASAs rate of 100km3 per year that would take 300,000 years. At that rate it would take nearly a 127 years to raise the oceans 1 in.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/02/03/nasa-still-spreading-antarctic-fud/
Science journal Nature reports that, "The result, which is based on more than 200,000 individual comparisons, implies that the amplification of current global warming by carbon-cycle feedback will be significantly less than recent work has suggested."
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/01/28/new-paper-in-nature-on-co2-amplifi...
NASA Water Vapor Confirmed as Major Player in Climate Change. http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/vapor_warming.html
Ms Sigrid Dengel at University of Edinburgh as correlated the growth of trees with cosmic radiation. Why is this important? because it casts doubt on using tree rings as accurate temperature proxies. Which is what the whole "trick" e-mail was about.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth_news/newsid_8311000/8311373.stm
I know used wattsupwiththat.com for 3 of these but they do a great job of explaining the complexities of climate science.
 
Travis Lupick
-Fred Pearce's With Speed and Violence: Why scientists fear tipping points in climate change
-Andrew Weaver's Keeping Our Cool: Canada in a warming world
-Tim Flannery's The Weather Makers: How we are changign the planet and what it means for life on Earth
-George Monbiot's Heat: How to Stop the Planet from Burning
-James Hansen's Storms Of My Grandchildren: The truth about the coming climate catastrophe and our last chance to save humanity

Five books that do a great job of explaining the complexities of climate science.
 
Jan Steinman
My library is overflowing, and I've been going through old Scientific American magazines, ripping out articles of particular interest and recycling the rest.

I'm currently up to 1991, and guess what? CO2 induced climate change has been generally accepted for over 20 years! I found peer-reviewed articles from the mid-80's! Why the controversy now?

The problem with science is that it embraces uncertainty and doubt, and is very challenging of proof and certainty.

This is the opposite of how ideology works: ideologues attack the uncertainty of scientists as certain proof that their theories and hypotheses are wrong. They will bend over backwards to convince themselves that they are acting rationally. This "bounded rationality" is going to kill us all if we let it take the day.

I think personal action is the best action. I don't mind if people want to protest Copenhagen. (Although I do go a bit crazy when they fly across the continent to do so!)

So, I do the best I can, living an extremely low-carbon life-style -- probably a net carbon sink. I'm not going to the store today to get something I need, because I wait until I have at least a half-dozen things on my list. I plant (on average) 20 trees a month. We supply (statistically) all our own protein via Permaculture, and are working on supplying our carbs and vegetables. We make our own biodiesel for the transportation that we do use. We heat with wood, sustainably harvested from our own wood lot. We turn the slash into chips (using a biodiesel-powered tractor) and make compost, therefore storing that carbon while enriching the earth.

Someday, many more will choose to live this way, and many others will be forced to live this way, because fossil fuel will be too dear. If you think commuting an hour in a Prius and changing your light bulbs will make one whit of difference, you might as well be a climate change denier.

Come join us: http://www.EcoReality.org .
 
J_M
Travis Lupick,
Fred Pearce (journalist) seems to be doing more research into the truth behind climate science and has published a few articles that are critical of current climate 'gates'.
"Hockey Stick"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/feb/02/hockey-stick-graph-cli...
Climate Science peer review revelations
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/feb/02/hacked-climate-emails-...
"Glaciergate"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/feb/02/climate-change-pachaur...
Andrew Weaver, a lead author of the IPCC reports, is even troubled by the fraud that the IPCC has been perpetrating: "For him to say, as he told Canwest News yesterday, that there has been some "dangerous crossing" of the line between climate advocacy and science at the IPCC is stunning in itself."
http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/story.html?id=90f8dd19-4a...
Tim Flannery and others link between worsening weather events and AGW has been debunked.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/19/hurricanes-to-global-warming-link-...
George Monbiot (journalist) thinks that what has happened at the CRU is bad enough that Dr. Phil Jones should step down.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/georgemonbiot/2010/feb/02/climate-...
James Hansen is in a great deal of hot water himself over temperature data at the GISS "NOAA had deleted from its datasets all but 1,500 of the 6,000 thermometers in service around the globe.
Now, 75% represents quite a drop in sampling population, particularly considering that these stations provide the readings used to compile both the Global Historical Climatology Network (GHCN) and United States Historical Climatology Network (USHCN) datasets. These are the same datasets, incidentally, which serve as primary sources of temperature data not only for climate researchers and universities worldwide, but also for the many international agencies using the data to create analytical temperature anomaly maps and charts."
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/01/22/american-thinker-on-cru-giss-and-c...
A great deal of the "science" looks to be falling apart.
 
aprilreeves
Whether you believe in climate change or not, one fact remains: if we do nothing, and it is true, there is no turning back. Once we heat to where the permafrost thaws, releasing methane and CO2 gas, we had better have something in place. Or rely on God.
 
J_M
aprilreeves

From Jo Novas blog: "What about the precautionary principle?

It cuts both ways. If we make it harder or more expensive for people in Africa to use their coal, it means they keep inhaling smoke from wood fires; babies get lung disease; forests are razed for fuel. Meanwhile electric trucks cost more to run, and that makes fresh food more expensive; desperate people eat more monkeys–wiping out another species; children die from eating meat that’s gone off or get Kwashiorkor–severe protein deficiency. More children could miss out on refrigerated vaccines and die of dysentery as a result. At the same time in the West, money could have been used for gene therapy or cancer research but wasn’t; the delay in medical advances means over 10 years, say, half-a-million people die who wouldn’t have if we’d put that money into medical labs instead of finding ways to pump a harmless gas underground. Either way we can’t afford to get this wrong. That’s why the responsible thing to do is look at the evidence."
http://joannenova.com.au/2009/12/pub-questions/
 
Ghenghis Khan and his Brother Don
J_M, I'm still waiting for the science. wattsupwiththat is nothing but a farcical rant, with little analysis, little science and it does a bad job at explaining anything. Its over-the-top anti-AGW rhetoric is hardly objective:

Right now, there doesn’t appear to be much of that “rotten ice” that one Canadian alarmist researcher squawked about to the media just a few weeks ago."
Was this researcher an alarmist crow or a chicken?
Those cute satellite pictures prove nothing: how thick is that ice now compared with earlier? Perhaps it is the same, perhaps it is only 10% of the thickness”¦we're not told.
The fact that they confuse weather with climate once again (oh no”¦frozen oranges!!!) I won't even bring up that it's an El Niño year”¦or that many models predicted a cooling of Europe due to changes in the flow of the Gulf Stream”¦.

**************

Your last post is a good one. How very nice for the author of the "Skeptic's Handbook" to provide us with her totally unbiased 'opinions' on the subject. Somehow the prospect of hundreds of millions of malnourished Indians or Chinese at risk from starving because of failed crops pales in comparison to the highly tenuous link between electric trucks and wiping out the world monkey population. And where she gets the figure for the "half-a-million people [who] die who wouldn’t have if we’d put that money into medical labs" only Buddha knows. "That’s why the responsible thing to do is look at the evidence...." she admonishes. Why do denialists always seem to imply that those who adhere to the AGW theory are all dyslexics or are devout fundamentalist disciples of the Great God AGW? Maybe because we base our conclusions on scientific consensus rather than on the hearsay opinions of populist bloggers?

But where are all those consensus-building scientific studies that that demonstrate that warming isn't occurring? One scientist's misquoted "opinion" (I"m referring to article citing Mojib Latif) Is hardly a rigorous demonstration of anything, let alone incontrovertible proof that AGW is a myth.

May Gaia be with us all

Ghenghis Khan and Don (brother)
 
Ghenghis Khan and his Brother Don
Arctic ice melting faster than feared: study

"The head of the largest climate change study ever undertaken in Canada says the Arctic sea ice is thinning faster than expected."

http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2010/02/05/tech-climate-arctic-ice.html

Of course, this must be the result of a conspiracy... ;)

Have a nice day!

Ghenghis Khan and Don (brother)
 
Nicovar
Gwynne Dyer is hypocrit with a carbon footprint to rival that of Al Gore. Dyer was credible as a military analyst but he lost all credibility when he so uncritically swallowed the AGW hoax.
 
J_M
Arctic Ice Melt: It's the wind says NASA.

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2010-056&icid=%27NewsFeatu...
 
Ghenghis Khan and his Brother Don
RE: Ice Melt
"We don't completely understand the conditions conducive to the formation of these arches," Kwok said. "We do know that they are temperature-dependent because they only form in winter. So there's concern that if climate warms, the arches could stop forming."

Global warming may be the reason why these arches aren't forming. J_M I suggest that you perhaps read the articles you cite.

Friendly greetings to all.

Ghenghis and Don (brother)
 
J_M
I did read it. They know the arctic ice is being pushed out to sea by wind and that the arches play a role in keeping it in, however they say,
"We don't completely understand the conditions conducive to the formation of these arches," "the arches 'could' stop forming"

They don't understand what forms the arches or what melts them, but they are convinced AGW is melting them. That is bias, that is belief.

Peer-Reviewed Study Shows Arctic COOLING Over last 1500 years!
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/1724

Not the Arctic but close. Greenland glaciers – melt due to sea current change, not air temperature, from Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/02/16/greenland-glaciers-melt-due-to-sea...

Here's one on tropical storms from the WMO.
Land-falling tropical storm and hurricane activity in the US shows no long-term increase and . . . "we cannot at this time conclusively identify anthropogenic signals in past tropical cyclone data."
http://rogerpielkejr.blogspot.com/2010/02/updated-wmo-consensus-perspect...

Also, the Institute of Physics thinks Climategate is serious.
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200910/cmselect/cmsctech/memo...
 
Ghenghis Khan and his Brother Don
Cherry picking?
A single peer-reviewed study showing cooling?
How does sea-water flow up onto land to melt the glaciers in Greenland?
There doesn't need to be a link between AGW and hurricane activity for AGW to be taking place. Perhaps global warming will reduce the number of hurrianes.
Climategate may be serious, but it doesn't mean that the accepted premises of AGW are necessarily false. Just because the US Accounting Board investigates a member accused of embezzlement and looks into ways of preventing other cases from happening doesn't mean all accountants are dishonest or can't count, or that accounting isn't really taking place in the US.

Salutations

Ghenghis Khan and Don (Brother)
 
Phaedra
All the temperature stations in the Arctic have been removed except one little lonely one north of the 60th parallel. That aught to help factualize the IPCC Reports.
 
Ghenghis Khan and his Brother Don
Phaedra : Well if that isn't absolute incontrovertible proof against AGW, i'll eat my mukluks....the thermometer in my garden also stopped working, dang...there goes the theory!
 
Anton
And as you write these comments your computer and the internet servers are burning through electricity, shame!
 
 
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