Dining » Restaurant Reviews

Commercial Drive's Controversial Kitchen puts its ethics on the table

Fiona Schellenberg runs the homey Controversial Kitchen, where all the meat comes from her family’s biodynamic ranch, including the duck in this hearty sandwich.

Tracey Kusiewicz
By Carolyn Ali,

Barbara Schellenberg was tired of courting controversy. So, naturally, she named her Commercial Drive restaurant Controversial Kitchen.

Controversial Kitchen

1420 Commercial Drive, 604-254-6101. Open daily 9 a.m. to 6 p.m.

It’s Schellenberg’s second restaurant, and she learned her lesson after naming her first one Ethical Kitchen. That eatery opened in 2008 at 1600 MacKay Road in North Vancouver. It claims to have environmentally sustainable practices and serve “ethical” meals. Almost everything in the café—from soups, stews, and sandwiches to ketchup, kimchi, and carbonated beverages—is made from scratch. The restaurant doesn’t stock the standard takeout containers, instead charging a $1 refundable deposit for reusable ones. Ingredients are organic and are sourced as locally as possible. There’s no fish or seafood on the menu because Schellenberg feels that marine ecosystems need a rest period.

But as her sister Fiona Schellenberg reports, despite all their efforts to be ethical, the name doesn’t sit well with everyone. “We have a lot of vegans and vegetarians who come in [to Ethical Kitchen], and they have a big problem with the fact that we serve meat.”

While Barbara runs Ethical Kitchen, Fiona manages the new Controversial Kitchen, which opened last October with a menu and operational practices similar to those of its sibling on the North Shore. The sisters knew they were going to encounter a lot of vegetarians on the Drive, so they decided to head off controversy by acknowledging it upfront. “We didn’t want to have to argue the same point all the time,” Fiona says. Their position is they believe it is ethical to serve and eat meat produced in a certain way. They’re also followers of the Weston A. Price diet, which posits that nutrient-dense whole foods and animal fats are good for your health.

On the line from Commercial Drive, Fiona explains that the Schellenbergs grew up eating a lot of meat on a ranch in B.C.’s Cariboo region. Their parents still own the certified-biodynamic ranch, which produces certified-organic, grass-fed and -finished meat under the Pasture to Plate label. (She explains that “grass-finished” means they don’t feed animals grain to bulk them up just before they’re slaughtered.) Both restaurants serve Pasture to Plate meat—beef, lamb, chicken, pork, turkey, goose, and duck. Customers can also buy frozen meat to take away.

The sisters have gone so far as to post two menus on the wall of Controversial Kitchen: one for omnivores, the other for herbivores. But since the restaurant opened, the dual theme has died off, and vegetarian options have become more limited, although the menus are still there.

Fiona explains that because their Commercial Drive cooking facilities are very basic, they bring in most of their food from Ethical Kitchen, where it’s made from scratch. Daily selections vary but usually include four kinds of meat-based soups and a vegetarian lentil dahl with rice. Cheese and fruit crepes are made on-site, as are eggs Florentine and various kinds of sandwiches. (Most items fall in the $8 to $13 range.)

Some dishes on the posted menus, like Moroccan chicken stew, aren’t always available, and a more flexible menu that reflects this is in the works. “We don’t think it’s necessary to have everything available every day,” Fiona explains. “It’s kind of like how you’d cook in your own kitchen.”

Indeed, Controversial Kitchen has a down-home vibe. It’s a bright, cheery place with a checkerboard floor and a sign that reads Take Back the Food Chain posted on its sage-green walls. The furnishings have a grandmother-y sort of feel—if your grandmother ferments kombucha and hangs hand-beaded chandeliers. A charming antique stove decorates the entrance, and mismatched wooden tables and chairs provide seating. Old-time lyrics lilting on the sound system (“I found my thrill on Blueberry Hill”) give the place a slow-paced atmosphere.

When I visited—before I had spoken with Fiona and knew the score—I went to the counter and attempted to order several menu items, only to be told that they didn’t have any of them. Finally, I asked what they did have and selected from that. Comically, I then watched two other customers go through the same routine.

Thankfully, what they did have was delicious. I tried two of the sandwiches, both on fantastically hearty sourdough baguettes. The first was filled with a warm, toothsome roast duck sautéed with soft apples and quince, then mixed with a crunchy slaw made with carrots, celery root, cucumber, fennel, and turnips. It was reminiscent of a Vietnamese bánh mí¬ sandwich, and although I found it a bit sweet, it was enjoyable nonetheless. The second was a cold lamb sandwich made with three kinds of cured lamb: smoked and cured sausage, cured lamb shoulder, and bresaola (a prosciutto-textured lamb cured with spices), all topped with the same crunchy slaw. Fantastic.

I also sampled the borscht, a ruby-coloured, beef-broth-based soup thickened with tiny lentils and packed with rough chunks of beet. I felt healthier the moment I lifted the spoon to my lips. It tasted as good as it looked.

Although the prices are steep ($8 for soup, $9.50 for a sandwich), you’re paying for quality ingredients and generous portions; one baguette could be split to satisfy modest appetites. If your ethics allow it, wade into this controversy.

Comments

Amanda H
There is absolutely nothing ethical about this restaurant. There is no ethical way to kill animals. People can eat what they want - and you can serve what you want to at your establishment... but seriously, are you really that shocked by the controversy?

Slaughtering animals for food is, by definition, NOT ETHICAL. So - call your damn restaurant something else!

Rustic Kitchen, Hommade Kitchen, Home-grown Kitchen... Calling it Ethical kitchen is just a lie. And "Controversial Kitchen" is just pompous. I'm so sick of this meat eaters vs vegetarians bull. Why rattle the cages? Bring peace to the drive - not trouble!
 
Lindsay Brown
I agree with Amanda. Trying to market yourself in that fashion is not appealing.

*Yawn*
 
Michael from Monkey in the Garden
We've now eaten twice at Controversial Kitchen- and honestly, the food 'saved our lives'. We have a small organic farm and restaurant out in the beautiful Nicola Valley, and during our visits to Vancouver- find it difficult to find truly wholesome, local, organic meals that our prepared with better health in mind.
When we first ate at the Controversial Kitchen in early December, I'd been battling with a pounding headache, was feeling nauseous, and wanted to crawl into a hole and disappear..... We'd been eating on the run and at various restaurants (different to our carefully prepared meals at home), and were feeling louzy. At the Controversial Kitchen we ordered up a couple of dishes and truly felt completely revitalized and energized and felt like dancing in the streets.
For what you get- the food is bargain basement cheap- as it's a rare establishment that honestly has your better health in mind. Not only that, but the food is wonderfully delicious, tasting like it was made right on the farm!
If you want to find out more about where we're coming from- check out our website at www.monkeyinthegarden.com and drop us a line at thegourmetmonkey@gmail.com
Don't delay- get out there and support the Controversial Kitchen and Ethical Kitchen- you'll kick yourself if you miss out and this incredibly important restaurant disappears into the wind.
Remember- you're really voting with your dollars.....
 
bondoh
get a life tree huggers. they make good food - better than most of what else is available in the neighborhood. let them rise or fall on that.
 
FinerDiner
I think the problem is the staff are so holier-than-thou about it all. So you have home-grown ingredients, well-cooked food and an 'ethical' dietary standard. Does that mean that people should be greatfeul to eat there? Yes. Does that mean that you should look down on your customers who don't look like they make their own shoes? Eh, no.

Give us all a break and let the food speak for itself. With a smile, if it's not too much trouble.
 
GH
Ethical ---> conforming to accepted standards of social or professional behavior.

Amanda, quit being such a drama queen. I guarantee you the majority of our society doesn't find moderate meat eating unethical. You're in a huff because it doesn't fall in line with your personal ethics, and it's just a little self-centred for you to think the rest of us should care.
 
Mike H
Hey Amanda

Why not chill out and take a second to remember that humans aren't the only things on the planet that kills and eats meat there are several species that consume flesh to sustain themselves. All you need to do is have a look in your mouth and you will see the evidence that we were meant to eat meat. We have evolved with teeth not only for crushing things like Vegetables but also teeth for gripping tearing and cutting flesh. So the act of eating or serving meat in itself is not unethical. I could see you taking offense it they were not using meat provided from labels that use ethical methods in raising there animals for meat but that isn't the case here. They aren't serving up chickens that have been force feed food that is unnatural for them to eat or genetically altering these animals to make them unnaturally bigger then they are supposed to be. They are just taking and animal that is lower on the food chain and that has been killed for food and they are feeding it to the people that want it. If you don't want it I am sure they are not trying to force feed it to you.

If you want to live a life denying what you are and by that I mean an omnivore like the rest of the species then you go ahead and do that. But leave the rest of us alone because we chose to be normal.
 
Joy
As an environmentalist and former vegetarian I want to say that not all vegetarians or "tree-huggers" would react in such a nasty to a restaurant that happens to serve meat in a way that is more ethical than 99% of restaurants.

I am curious why FinerDiner commented on them being holier than thou? I went in there once to apply for a job and got a slightly negative reaction, maybe they felt I didn't seem like an environmental sort of person and was randomly applying to some place "special"? But Perhaps I overthink. I've never been there to eat though and I would gladly pay good money to get ethically treated food, planning on going.
 
DYR
Do your research people. Stop living off societal fads, going in and out like the tides. There are indigenous cultures that lived mainly off meat - were they unethical? An ethic is an individual freedom. I'd rather eat a steak that has come from a cow i killed with respect and gratitude than a vege burger full of ingredients grown in all parts of the world shipped in. So, what;s really ethical? We need to make choices based on real investigation and that lie close to our hearts - and, most importantly, not get caught up judging others for there choices. I know the impulse of this resteraunt, and it has great intentions. Let us live with the intentions of people trying to do good - and lets leave the fixations on dietary dogmas behind us. Bless your food - what ever it is your eating, and be grateful you got it. Were not in Haiti starving!

Blessings on the meal (whether its meat or lettuce).
 
FinerDiner
Joy, I guess your 'negative response' is akin to what I've expereinced there.

See, I really like the look of the Controvercial Kitchen. The reclaimed furniture, veneer table tops, the stack of home-made goodies at the counter. And the menu is good too with their hearty soups and beautiful fresh-made crepes. It's what keeps me coming back.

But everytime (and I mean every, single time) I go in, I feel like I've interrupted a private conversation when I go to order. I get the impression I'm not good enough for them, and I have no idea why. Perhaps they can't tell I'm ethical cause I dress more conventionally than the average staff memeber. And to that end, excersing my freedom of choice in what I wear would seem to alienate me from them. Even though they are supposedly part of an accepting, peace-loving and thoughtful counter-culture. It's mind boggling when you stop to think about it. And it negates some of the goodness of the 'ethical' work they are doing.

 
A New Gastronome
Eating meat is unethical: this is such a narrow-minded generalization... and more to the point, short-sighted. You will NEVER get all humans to stop eating meat, because we are "by definition," omnivores. As such, the MOST ethical thing we can do as the more "enlightened eaters" most vegetarians and vegans view themselves, is to be forward-thinking: support smaller, organic, grain-fed ranching. Because the only way we will ever take away market-share from factory farms is to support the little guy. Who is MORE ethical. Don't just run away from the food system by boycotting the big evil guys, but participate in supporting the little farms who love their cattle before they sacrifice them.
 
Issy
Mike H — You said it better than I ever have. Taking mental perhaps actual note for future conversations.
 
lucas.poznanski
From a marketing perspective, I find this restaurant's name very poorly thought out. When's the last time you read the words "restaurant" and "controversial" in a newspaper headline and thought "I want to eat there"? The first thought that comes to my mind is "health code violations". Just an observation.
 
Michael K
"Slaughtering animals for food is, by definition, NOT ETHICAL. So - call your damn restaurant something else!"

Umm, yeah. I guess this is why no other species on the planet would ever eat the flesh of another, right?

Or are you now going to argue that they just don't have any "morales" and that humans are more "enlightened"?
 
west coaster
Nothing surprising about the rabid defense of meat eating here, but how sadly regressive that believers in the Weston A. Price Foundation are peddling their snake oil on the Drive.

It seems the latest version of delusional greenwash is the ridiculous claim that animal products are not only necessary for optimum health but are a 'sustainable, environmentally-conscious' option.

To hell with peer-reviewed, modern day nutritional science (and the growing number of conscientious vegetarians and vegans who also prefer organic whole foods, including triathalon athletes who absolutely THRIVE on a plant-based diet! According to many WAP Foundation followers we should all be sick or dying! ) To hell with the fact that the amount of precious water required to raise one beef cow is enough to float a tanker, etc, or that our seemingly insatiable desire for meat on a planetary scale is a leading cause of global warming!

It is also completely disrespectful and disingenuous to keep referencing indigenous peoples' traditional cultures wedded to time and place, including survival in restrictive environments or the ancient past, as a means of upholding the socially constructed and maintained, PRIVILEGE of meat consumption in contemporary middle class western society.

The cooks at the Controversial Kitchen need to wake up and realize that the only way to maintain even the current level of global animal consumption is to keep factory farming it! They are NOT 'off the hook' because they, themselves, don't feed people the bodyparts of animals raised on factory farms. There is no escaping the fact that billions upon billions of animals are destined to lead wretched lives and horrific deaths, as long as people of privilege continue to uphold the total myth that 'meat is necessary' while the majority world aspires to the same (or similar degree) of privilege that those of us here in Canada and other places that know affluence, take for granted.

Organically raised meat is far from sustainable...it is completely elitist and the Controversial Kitchen is inescapably complicit in disguising this fact through their own deliberate engagement with the Weston A Price Foundation.

Harsh criticism for people who are no doubt TRYING to live in an eco-conscious way? The mindset that animals can be, have been, and therefore should continue to be exploited is far more damning on so, so many levels...

http://www.humanemyth.org/
http://www.documentarywire.com/earthlings


"The animals of this world exist for their own reasons. They were not made for humans any more than blacks were made for whites, or women created for men". -Alice Walker
 
miguel
Anybody know where I can get some unicorn steaks?
Miguel
 
gpauls99@hotmail.com
Good food, good people, what else can you say!

Sorry that the haters seem to be non-meat eaters that have likley have giant carbon foot print from shipping non seasonal foods from USA and other parts of the world!
 
Michael K
"To hell with the fact that the amount of precious water required to raise one beef cow is enough to float a tanker, etc, or that our seemingly insatiable desire for meat on a planetary scale is a leading cause of global warming!"

A few things here:

1. The water isn't "lost". Yes, the animal drinks it, then "returns" it into the environment, that alone isn't the problem.
2. The way we do raise meat IS a problem, but that's because we expect everything to be cheap, not because it's bad to eat meat.

"including triathalon athletes who absolutely THRIVE on a plant-based diet! "

How many supplements do they eat on a daily basis? Where do these supplements originate from? Milk? Egg? Other parts of an animal? I have been living Vegetarian for a while in the past, I know people now who are Vegans or Vegetarians, I also know that most of them constantly seem to be fighting a cold or something else AND chow down pills in vast numbers to get things like B-12 etc.

"There is no escaping the fact that billions upon billions of animals are destined to lead wretched lives and horrific deaths, as long as people of privilege continue to uphold the total myth that 'meat is necessary' while the majority world aspires to the same (or similar degree) of privilege that those of us here in Canada and other places that know affluence, take for granted."

You are confusing two things here:

1. The "right" / ability to eat meat.
2. The "right" to eat as much meat as we are consuming in the affluent world.

Those are two completely different issues and by mashing them up you are completely devaluing anything else you say.

There are VERY few societies in human history that did not have some part of their diet based on animals, if anything, the most successful societies always had mastered animal husbandry. This does not mean that the current factory farms are okay, but by your all or nothing argumentation you lose 90% of the people who may have some kind of sympathy with your line of reasoning.

"Organically raised meat is far from sustainable...it is completely elitist "

Really now? What is your solution then? Let's slaughter all the farm animals and don't have any more? Because Cows, sheep etc. have been bread over hundreds if not thousands of years to be domesticated and taken care of by humans (and yes, eventually slaughtered and made into dinner).

You have a lot of "would someone please think of the poor animals" rhetoric there, but provide zero solutions.

You come off as an elitist idealogue who makes it clear that anybody not agreeing with you is wrong. Bring some constructive suggestions to the table and we can talk (even over a Vegan dinner).
 
Frosty Crow the messanger of the North
I'm still trying to figure out which reality your living in "Westcoaster". I think this is a great restaurant and completely ethical. How is organically grown farm meat that has been honoured "unethical"? Just because you choose not to eat meat, doesnt give you the right to damn everyone else for it. I dont drink and I sure dont go around putting people down and preaching to everyone why they shouldnt drink. I have the cultural RIGHT (and yes it is part of my basic human right) to practice my culture without being harrased and looked down upon. We as Aboriginal people get that enough on a daily basis. I very much beleive in your cause for animals and I think that we need to stick together to fight such oprression on our brothers and sisters who have no voice. The Vegan and Vegetarians on here who disagree need a serious reality check. YES, we as humans are omnivores, we were always meant to eat meat, deal with it, its reality. Those who dont eat meat are not getting the proper nutrition thier bodies need and many times have to take nutritional suppliments. So exactly where would you be if there was no store to sell your presious tofu and vitamins?
The Soy Bean is the largest growing crop in the world (how is this sustainable or ETHICAL if its mass produced?). Also it absorbs the toxins from its environment and is shown to have hightened levels of estrogin. This is by no means healthy, especially for children and men who dont need estrogin in thier system.
I am a Native from a small community north of the arctic circle. I take GREAT OFFENCE to those who try and put people down for eating meat. We as Gwichin people have depended on the land for food since time immemorial and continue to do so to this day. Quit trying to act like we are extinct! Our creation story says that the Gwich'in and the caribou share a peice of eathother's heart, so yes we were made for eachother. When there is no caribou, fish, rabbit, moose, muskrat, duck, geese, etc. available to us (due to global warming) we are forced to go to the local grocery store, where we resort to buying packed meat that has probably been given anti-biotics, lived a sad life and ended up being slaughtered, we still honour that animal's life. Our entire culture is centred around our connection with our surrounding environment, a large part of that environent being animals. We as Gwich'in people are very much connected to animals that we eat and hold the upmost resepct for these animals, offering prayers and thanks for them to provide us with life. Do I agree with thier treatment? Absolutely not but at least they didnt die without being honoured. If you really wanted to live there and be a vegetarian, you defenetly wouldnt survive and thats just the fact when you live off the land. I seriously think people who dont eat meat are jaded by society, because if you knew at all what it was like to live in harmony with mother nature, you'd know that you wouldnt survive without Whole Foods or whatever grocery store you go to. I can say this because I know what its like to live off the land and grow a garden. A few years ago my uncle picked up stranded tourists who wanted to experience the north by canoeing down the Porcupine River. These German tourists were in the middle of the bush litteraly starving and had to get shipped out to the city because they refused to eat our traditional caribou meat. Now if thats disrespectful! Dont come to our territory and disrespect our ways! Remember whose land your on! Especially here on the West Coast, where Native people live off an abundance of seafood. You can stick to the seaweed, but its shown that Salmon is brain food and provides Omega 3 fatty acids your body needs, now try to go tell these people how "UNETHICAL" and wrong they are. In case I'm not being clear enough for you, please read the following article:
http://vegansofcolor.wordpress.com/2010/01/13/resisting-coloniality/
 
barbara
in creating both of the kitchens (ethical and controversial) my goal was to bring to the table whatever was available BC grown, organic and as ethical as possible. i have been full circle: i grew up on a ranch, i was vegetarian for many years and some time vegan as well. i always wanted to do the right thing and it wasn't, surprisingly, until i was deeply into herbal medicine school that i realized the truth: one can communicate on the same level whether it is an animal or a plant. since this experience i really have to say that as long as meat is harvested in a kind and respectful manner, it is really not that different as one would think on a spiritual level from harvesting wild or domesticated plants. my intention with the restaurant is to 'stabilize food culture' giving people a way of eating that they can feel comfortable with, feel good about and stick to, not just another crazy diet. if my staff at times seem aloof i assure you that it is not becuase they think themselves better than you; they all work very hard and have a lot on their plates running two restaurants when i cannot always be there. if anything i am extremely proud of my young staff having pulled through and kept it together over these first few months. everyone is always learning and things will only get better. see you, Barbara.
 
west coaster
Michael K... are you aware that only 2.5% of the earth's water is fresh, and that more than 8% is incorporated into meat production?

For a serious analysis of the devestation the rapidly GROWING meat industry- its whole cycle - is having on the world's dwindling clean, fresh water supply, please read the following section, for starters, from the UN report 'Livestock's Long Shadow' : ftp://ftp.fao.org/docrep/fao/010/A0701E/A0701E04.pdf

It’s absolutely true that most people want everything CHEAP, but that’s exactly what makes organically raised meat 'elitist'! Since Michael K mistakenly believes that animal products are necessary in the human diet, and we are fast approaching 8 billion people on this planet, could he please figure out on a Controversial Kitchen napkin how much land, water, veterinary care, refrigeration, cooking fuel and transport costs will be required to feed everybody an ”˜ethically produced’ meat diet? Then show us how that is NOT elitist?

My comments have been (and remain) directed at those who have a CHOICE. The reality for most subsistence farmers in the majority world is NO veterinary care, with barely enough clean water for their own consumption and disease preventing hygiene. These are NOT people of privilege. The fewer resources WE use unnecessarily, the more there is to go around for everybody, including future generations. The stock-free organic movement in Europe, finally beginning to catch on over here in NA, understands this ... http://www.veganorganic.net/

A well-balanced diet is required by everyone for optimum health, but contrary to the literal bs the Weston A. Price F is spoon-feeding people with their liver smoothies, there is NO need for meat, eggs or dairy. Here’s a site to back up my challenged claim about high performance vegan athletes: http://www.bestveganguide.com/vegan-athletes.html

The practice of meat-eating is, always has been, and likely always will remain socially and culturally complex. The idea that it is a human ”˜right’ to consume animals however, simply because we can, is just that, an idea. (see the link I provided in my previous post). In many cultures meat eating remains superstitiously associated with male dominance and sexual potency. Plants, which have been femininized within the patriarchal mindset, continue to be erroneously regarded –like women- as weak and inferior. (see: The Sexual Poltics of Meat, Carol J. Adams)

Human evolution is always about adaptation. Ideas once held as immutable are reconsidered- few cultural 'traditions' are truly static 'forever', although it IS true that we often forget exactly why it is that we cling to a certain idea or practise.

As the world becomes smaller and smaller, relationships between the sexes, within and between different cultures, with other animals, and the natural environment, are evolving rapidly. There is a growing understand that all oppressions are interconnected.

People affluent enough to have choice in their lives, CAN eschew the privilege of meat eating out of respect for its impact on the environment, the well -being of countless other lives affected by the practise (human and non-human) on a CONTEMPORARY, global scale. That IS a solution, Michael.

Vancouver's EarthSave is a great resource to help people get started : http://www.earthsave.ca/
 
west coaster
Frosty Crow, the mass production of soybeans devastating the environment is grown to feed livestock, not people. Meat eating is the problem, not tofu consumption (and most health conscious vegans and vegetarians eat organic soy products, not gmos!) Among the unfounded fear mongering perpetuated by the Weston A Price Foundation is the claim that soy is dangerously high in estrogen”¦this homophobic organization has even gone so far as to suggest that soy can turn children gay! Click here for a website that exposes more of the wacky myths perpetuated by soy bashers: http://www.bryannaclarkgrogan.com/page/page/3476771.htm

We may simply have to agree to disagree that humans are deprived without meat in their diet (please see my reference to the vegan athletes site in my previous post).
Those German tourists you mention in your post were obviously ill prepared for their wilderness adventure. But at least they weren’t out there killing whatever they came across with abandonment and entitlement. People who choose not to eat animals often do so from a deeply held spiritual commitment to their own beliefs and respect for the lives of others.

Frosty Crow, I certainly mean neither you nor the Gwichin people any disrespect in advocating for a way of life WHERE POSSIBLE that advances harm reduction on animals and the environment. My Mi’kmaq ancestors lived off the land and sea- also eating berries, squash and maple syrup, etc. With contact came the caribou decline, and today the east coast ocean is ravaged. You say, we “need to stick together to fight such oppression on our brothers and sisters who have no voice”. It’s my belief that celebrating the great gift of plants in our lives if a very important way to do this. Other native readers may find interesting this article by Choctaw and Cherokee vegetarian Rita Laws: Return to the Corn. http://www.ivu.org/history/native_americans.html

Respect for the circle of life and understanding that all things are connected requires reciprocity.Tribal society often demands the sacrifice of individual interests, with the understanding that we are all one. Salmon, bear, caribou, man.

Cow, pig, sheep, chicken. In the rural community where I live in today, the animals I know have distinct personalities. I choose to recognize their own unique interests as having nothing to do with their potential usefulness in my own life. And so I, and others, disagree with the blurring of distinctions between animals and plants, unlike the proprietor of Conscious Kitchen who professes that all may be 'harvested' equally in her own views about spiritual matters.

It IS a break from some cultural traditions to claim the rights of an independent individual. But most of us today expect that our rights as invidividuals should be respected. Rights that protect us- and our bodies- from the dominating interests of others.

Nothing gives us the right to consider ourselves the only sentient beings deserving of freedom from oppression and exploitation. IMO, the only form of 'honouring' that makes a difference to the animal is freedom from harm. Prayers uttered the dead are really made for ears that can still hear.
 
Geoff
I support vegetarianism generally, but it's a shame to see it propounded here in such a dogmatic, borderline xenophobic fashion. What, for instance, would these self-styled animal rights crusaders advocate for northern peoples? - forced resettlement? By your standards, I suppose our indigenous peoples had it all wrong? Perhaps, while we're at it, we should make it illegal for bears and cougars to eat rabbits. Unfortunately, I've come to expect precisely this type of tunnel-vision naivete in Vancouver. As an ethics- and health-conscious omnivore myself, I welcome this restaurant to my neighborhood.
 
In the Green
Wow, I was looking for a review on this restaurant. Instead I found a forum of divergent life-styles bashing one another. I think people in close proximity to this restaurant are very fortunate to have a truly conscientious owner providing sincerely nutritious menus. It sounds like a wonderful place. I wish them Blessings and Prosperity.
 
Debbie Krull
LOL! Controversial Kitchen indeed! Well done & Welcome to the drive.
 
Philip Solman
It seems that many people posting comments would like things to 'change'. The question is how can positive change actually be achieved.
I don't see that rants by people who insist we must all stop eating meat and diary will actually achieve the desired change. Instead these breed distrust and entrenched positions.
The vast majority of our population will simply NOT stop eating meat in the near future, but they may be convinced to eat less meat and choose meat from animals who were allowed to live good lives (yes we kill them to eat them, but isn't it much worse to cause them pain suffering & illness throughout their whole lives and then kill them in such quantities that much of their flesh goes to waste).
And if choosing 'ethical' meat is elitist that is only because it is more honestly priced (industrially produced meat is heavily subsidized). Meat should never be cheap, it should be the most expensive part of any meal, which would help steer people to eat less.
 
Soup
Do the people that oppose Ethical and Controversial Kitchen think that they are going in the wrong direction? Are they Not trying to raise awareness about our environment and ecosystems? Do you think they could make a profit in this very risky and demanding restaurant business if they offered such a limited "ethical" vegan menu?

If you support their idea, instead of denouncing it, it could evolve into even more ethical practices. It takes time to change and it is ironic that the people that don't support their idea are the ones trying the hardest to make ethical changes.
 
Nick
At least these people are trying to make a difference.

Eating locally raised, sustainable, humanely slaughtered meat is imho MUCH more ethical than eating fruit and vegetables flown thousands of miles from where it was grown, by a farmer who isn't getting fair market value for his produce. People who don't want to support factory farming have the option to buy fair trade organic local produce. Why then chastise people who are trying to give those who choose to eat meat a better choice?
 
Jill
Absolutely love, love, love both restaurants and the meat is amazing!! As well as everything else they make and serve. I had been vegetarian and then mostly raw for many years and became extremely ill from it. I was desperate to get better. I discovered Dr. Price's web site and The Ethical Kitchen and I began to learn about getting back to the basics with food. I started eating meat twice a day, drinking bone broth, cooked vegetables, fermented foods as well as fermented cod liver oil (tastes awful but health benefits are incredible) there were noticeable positive changes to my health within days. Keep up the great work Barbera, Fiona and your amazing staff!!
 
Kachinga
Vegans should be food, and not allowed to post comments about food. Vegan should however be allowed to post as many comments about grass and dandelion root tea as they please. Go back to the 60s, hippe!
 
Heather Passmore
I fully applaud establishments like this which support local biodynamic agriculture. It doesn't matter whether it is an animal, vegetable or fruit. It is the avoidance of pollution, unwise production and distribution that is important. The exploitation of workers, animals or the environment that is the over-riding issue.

The belief that adherence to any one dietary pattern (such as veganism) will neatly resolve the ethical aporias of our present environmental crisis is ludicrous. (For example, In the Amazon, industrial-scale cattle ranching and soybean production for world markets are increasingly important causes of deforestation, and in Indonesia, the conversion of tropical forest to commercial palm plantations to produce bio-fuels for export is a major cause of deforestation on Borneo and Sumatratra.) Vegans should consider the sustainability of biodynamic agriculture over conventional systems of monocrops which rely on artificial chemicals. In any case, there are multitudes of animal, bird and insect lifeforms destroyed by the industrial agriculture of plants.

As for dietary health considerations, why take supplements as a vegan when it is now possible to access local, ethically raised WHOLE foods like raw milk, grass fed meat and eggs? What about biodynamic farming and the common good? Why the new-fangled when the precious traditional methods of food, farming and healing arts are just beginning to be re-valuated in the face of monoculture and expensive de-natured processed powders, pills, formulas...?

 
Dan
the food chain is what it is... but how we go about killing in so wrong.
 
Nicawho
This restaurant can go by no other name as controversy is at the root of the ingredients.

Great points about eating meat not eating meat have been brought up. I do not believe that the issue has been touched on.

Ethics are not absolute. No one can define ethics for you. There are some obvious things that a majority of people can easily agree on and there are others (like this one) that fall in the grey areas.

The important thing, as was mentioned by several contributors, is to gauge the intentions of the party at question. Do they mean well? Do they represent what they claim to stand for? If the answer is yes than that is a good thing. Accept that. Also accept that what the stand for and represent may not match your definition.

The answer is collaboration. Do not chastise or criticize instead go and add your opinion to the pot in a constructive way. Anything that can help move the cause in a positive way may be considered. At the least if delivered positively can have some weight on the restaurants conscious.

We all need to learn how to influence things to move our way. The best way to do that is to not impose ourselves on other peoples opinions.

Ethical Kitchen IS ethical according to someones ethics. Right?
 
Eva Bunnyhead
Can someone point me in the direction of ethical butchers in the Vancouver area? And recommend the best markets for fruit+veg and other produce? I've just moved here from Australia a couple of weeks ago ( :
 
NellieTroy
I have only recently become aware of the awful circumstances of how meat is produced and struggled over the last months to find ways to eat more responsibly and sustainably, including meat. The problem is, I am a student, and not within means to buy organic, free range meat, grass-finished in the case of beef, that often, so I am mostly vegetarian by default.
Any one interested in this sort of thing, I found Barbara Kingsolver's new food novel Animal, Vegetable, Miracle, very helpful and informative as well as just a great read.
@ EvaBunnyhead: I have purchased local and "ethical" meat at The Butcher on 10th avenue and Sasamat. A great neighborhoodly place with fantastic meat, as well as some produce (onions, garlic, potatoes). Windsor Meat Packing on Main street I've heard has a good selection of organic and free-range meats. My newest discovery (my solution for the being poor thing) is buying in bulk (if you have a big freezer, this is great) from a local farm. North Valley Farms in Abbotsford sell their chicken, beef and eggs direct to customer, pick up or delivery. Find some other like-minded peeps in the neighborhood and buy an entire cow, all proffessionaly butchered and wrapped, and know it had a good life, and be thankful for it's sacrifice to feed you.
Good on Ethical and Controversial Kitchen, I'm looking forward to coming to visit soon!
 
A carnivore
You rightous people out there need to realize that there is plenty of vegetarian restaurants out there for you and us meat eaters aren't coming in there and complaining that there is no steak on the menu. So why can't you accept that there is a couple of places that will serve meet to those who appreciate a quality steak or sandwich? There is a huge difference between a feedlot and a grassfinished animal, if you have ever seen a feedlot and how animals there are pumped full of chemicals and stand up to there stomachs in shit, I can understand that you wouldn't enjoy the thought of biting into a steak. However once you've seen an animal raised in it's natural environment, on nothing but grass you may also be able to apprecaite the difference and enjoy THAT steak! And if you're still not moved to eat meat, well then just leave the rest of us, that are simply abiding to our human nature and enjoying what our bodies truly need (that is not tofu) in our peace. As I mentioned before we don't come parading into to grocery stores and complain that they are selling tofu "burgers" that taste like meat! Why would you as a vegan/vegetarian want to eat a burger that tastes just like meat? I rest my case.
 
 
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