I say the opposite. Send MORE money to independent schools. They provide a much better quality of education. Don't agree? When was the last time parents lined up hours or days to sign their children up for a "public school"?

Parents are now signing their newborn children up for enrolment in these schools - that's how popular they are.

The public system needs an ass-kicking to be in the same league as these alternatives. Stop asking for more money to float an inferior service for our children. Parents and taxpayers deserve better!  

Ray I,

They provide 'better' education only because they select which students can attend, and reject students that don't meet their criteria.
 

You've got a lot of nerve whiners. Next you'll be demanding fair corporate taxation and separation of corporations and state.  

Reply to Peter K. It is my perception the students that are rejected by private schools who don't meet private school criteria have no option but to go to public schools. The strength of public schools is their pluralism. The weakness of private schools is their "parochial" criteria creating a more "homogenous" & "exclusive" demographic which does not not necessarily reflect the diversity of the general population in a community. The diversity in public schools needs to be supported with dependable & adequate financing for the enrichment of the public good.  

I disagree, this isn't a solution. Private school students are still British Columbians, and therefore, are entitled to government subsidizing - as they are in ALL facets available (whether it be school, healthcare, etc.).

Private schools provide quality education, and are light years ahead than the public school system at teaching to student's INDIVIDUAL needs. Private schools are contributing in a positive manner to kids educations - why decrease funding to something that's working so well?

Peter, yes, the schools do have the opportunity to reject applicants, but how does that correlate to a good education? The schools have criteria, yes, but not all of it is rooted in academics. Lots of schools are simply looking for well-rounded kids with good personalities that fit the school's message. Well-rounded doesn't indicate straight A's, and, in turn, a good education. Further, yes, the admissions process helps to narrow down kids but it's impossible to know that your school's teaching style is a 'perfect' fit with a chosen student based on one test or one interview. It's a guessing game.

IMO it's the parents that make the difference anyway. West side parents are way more involved in their kids lives, in school and out.  

The way things are going it's like Gordy boy has friends in the private school busness and they want more parents to use them then shut the public system right down. All for the mighty buck but not in your pocket. 

If the argument is exclusively which of public or private school systems in the province should have priority for "limited" education resources in BC -- a glen p robbins - BC Conservative government would go with the public system - no question.

 

This is short sighted. If you pull the public funding that goes to independent schools, their fees will go up. You will then see some students leaving independent schools and enrolling in the public system. This article leaves out that math. Any savings you see will be quickly eclipsed by the increased costs from the new students.

About 8% of students are in private schools. A minority of these are elite private schools. A far larger portion of private schools are religious based institutions.

If we assume that 50% of the fees charged by independent schools are covered by the Provincial Government, and it was all pulled to fund the Public system, parents at the independent schools would see their fees doubled in order to cover the shortfall. Since most independent schools are not the St George's and Little Flower Academy type, the parents would be completely unable to afford a 200% increase in school fees and more than half would need to send their kids to Public School. Independent Schools who lose more than 25% of their students would likely need to close or consolidate and you would then see Parents who could afford the increased costs still putting their children into Public Schools since their independent school closed down.

The end result would be that instead of only paying 50% of the educational cost of students attending independent schools, you would see the Public system paying for 100% of more than half the students having moved in to the Public system.

Along with this you would have a surge of religious issues as the current Public system tries to absorb a 5% increase in enrollment made up almost entirely of students coming in from religious schools (Sikh, Hindi, Christian, and Catholic).

No money would be saved by diverting Private School funding to the Public system.

This call is not about increasing funding for the Public system since any increased funding will be consumed by the increased enrollment from closed independent schools.

What this call is about is the political control of education. The Public system doesn't like competition, especially when independent schools often (but not always) outrank public schools, at a cost to the Government of 50% of what the public schools cost the Government.

This is standard political PR talk calling for increased funding as a cost savings when in fact it is empire building that will cost the taxpayer more than leaving the students in parent-subsidized independent schools.

 

This is a misguided and poorly thought out motion. Independent schools are largely self-funded and receive only a percentage of their operating costs from the government. Taking away funding would have he effect of encouraging more of these students into already overcrowded public schools. On a cost-benefit analysis I think the comptroller-general will likely realize that funding independent schools is a net saving to the province. 

I have experienced both with my children. When they were in public school, there was only watered down curriculum to deal with their form of dyslexia. In the private school, they were given the resources they needed to learn in their style of learning. I would not support this motion or the Trustees who voted for it.  

RogerS: Overcrowded public schools? Haven't you been reading the news? Schools are being closed down due to declining enrollment in numerous districts across the province. 

Good Luck.... Just look at Gordo's family, His Sister in Law is a public school teacher and sent their kids to Vancouver College.... 

I have had kids in private and public schools and mostly, I agree that we should cut back the funding we give private schools and redirect this money to public schools. There are, however, some independent schools for special needs kids whose needs aren't met by their local schools and it would be incredibly difficult for parents to pay the tuition at a school like that if it went up. But most religious and elite private schools have highly able fundraisers in their communities and could take a bigger share.

One thing I observe is that the provincial government now funds districts for the costs of summer school and year round online education and sometimes even courses taken by adults who have graduated. In the past, these courses were paid for by families and the district only covered the costs for families who couldn't pay. It's probably good that we have this free education available cradle to grave and all that, but when the government says that it's increasing funding to districts we all have to be aware that the expectations of what that funding will cover have increased significantly. 

Though I support the general principle of the motion, the reality is something different. As Richard L points out, no government - Socred, NDP or Liberal - wants to give up educating private school students for no more than 50 cents on the public dollar. That's a lot cheaper than having many of these students coming back into the public system for the full ride!

On the other hand, I would support a motion that makes 50% funding contingent on this: no cherry-picking whatsoever, and ratios of special education students at par with public schools. 

Taking the $200mm subsidy out of the private school system will have little to no impact on the quality of education at private schools. But it will have significant impact on the quality of education in the public sector. This seems like a no brainer. 

Reduced funding for public schools means that private schools should also receive reduced funds. I would rather they shut the private schools down altogether. This is a elitist based education system based on religious dogma or exclusively for the rich. Shut them down! If you want to send your kid to a private school then pay for it. Quit riding on the taxpayers back. Your just a bunch of freeloaders. 

If we stopped funding the elite private schools and shifted that funding to public schools it would directly contravene this provinces mandate to provide social infrastructure for the rich and dog eat dog capitalism for the rest. 

everyone seems to be thinking of private schools as something only rich people with above average IQs use. NOT TRUE. my child specifically went to private school (full of regular low-middle income families) to get help because she is behind and was not recieving help or the attention needed. the private school she attends has many kids who need extra help and mentally handicap students. we pay some fees, we fundraise and there are volunteers, not just public funding. dont just think of the elite schools when you consider this issue. And not every religious private school makes you practice their religion they just ask that you accept thier decision to do so freely. We are taxpayers too! 

One of the problems I have witnessed with Independent schools is when money is provided for 'special' students -- these $$ don't go to to serve the particular needs -- .

Setting off Independent schools against public schools is not new politics-former Ontario Conservative Party leader John Tory got his rear end handed to him in a provincial election a few years back -- in part because of this issue.

The government reflects 'public' -- the preponderance of schools are public-- if there HAS to be a choice--there ought to be continuity of purpose -- a public government funding public schools.

Beyond the speculation of efficacy or results or other (often) biased induced debate -- or too many public school teacher's are control crackpots -- or public education is not working -- or private schools are elitist-- the public suffers day in and day out with a government (and oft supporting media) that ply their trade on these divide and rule type of issues.

If money is short than priority goes to public schools. The Independent schools need to get out and talk about the need for proper funding for public schools -- to ensure that it's parishioners -- receive their subsidy or as one contributor has suggested -- British Columbians receive education savings.

We just recently paid for our daughter's inter-school game on Vancouver Island -- a game between 2 schools in the public school system--the amount was to cover the cost of the Ferry ride for the bus which was paid for.

At the same time -- the executive from a private hockey club was pushing to secure a hockey academy in a private school in Delta.

Anyone paying attention realizes that education in BC is as much about politics as it is about educating children.

Maybe we should consider 'uniforms' for students at public schools to match the savings parents at Independent schools enjoy -- for the clothing contest -- too often featured at public schools? 

Excuse me for pointing out the not-so-obvious: but the reason the schools are running short of funds while the student population is DECLINING, is that the unionized teachers are getting fat bonuses and higher pension contributions. I wouldn't mind if we citizens were getting equally fat paychecks, but enough gold-digging by the teachers is enough! 

If you look at the address below you will see that all BC schools, private or public, who educate students with the following needs: moderate to profound intellectual disability, physical disability/chronic health impairment, visual impairment, deaf or hard of hearing, and autism spectrum disorder received$18,300 per student. The trouble is that if a school is to do a reasonable job it often costs much much more. A student who requires constant supervision will cost at least twice that much, particularly at a public school where the teacher's aids are generously paid. If the grants given reflected the true costs of educating the students then private schools would be able to accept more special needs students, as I am sure many of the religious based schools would be happy to do, and public schools with many special needs students would have the money they need to do a effective job.



http://www.gov.bc.ca/fortherecord/specialneeds/sn_children.html?src=/chi... 

Make no mistake, the Gov't has a well laid out plan with the schools issue. It is about control of our tax dollars and the taxes used for schools are just another piece of the pie. The gov't is simply redirecting $ for education to their supporters.

These plans are well laid out. Right leaning Gov'ts pretend to tax us less when the time is right (not now-duh!) and then cut back on social services, because they correctly have the biggest piece of the tax pie. Its called greed for the biggest pot of money in the world, your tax dollar.

General rule of thumb for this Gov't is tax when you can get away with it and slash social spending when you can get away with it and right now they can get away with both.

They are in the beginning of their 3rd term and unless we kick them out, they will rape and pillage like never before.

Please sign-up to sign-up those in opposition to the HST today. Lets kick these greedy excuses for politicians out on the street where they can learn to survive like the rest of us.



 

Public Schools already get Private School funding. Private schools get 50%, 35% OR 0% funding from the province, yet all those parents and grandparents pay full tax loads. SO, the public system gets the extra 50% or 65% of the dollars private school parents pay in taxes. If private schools disappeared tomorrow, taxpayers would have to find 4 Billion in new construction dollars and find another 400 million dollars a year in operating costs. Private school make public schools money now.  

I am not a CMA nor a politician but the read for $ analysis shows that tax payers would have to pay more in education funding reallocation. Arguments for both sides for funding however you must hear the real life facts first. Redirecting private school funding to the public school sector would be a complete disaster. I wouldn't want my own current public school kids to have to deal with overcrowded schools resulting from closures of the private or religious school system. This would put a strain on not only the public school kids but also on the various private or religious children who would feel incompatible with the general teachings of a public school teacher. Case in point: My cousin enrolled her children in a Catholic school for her religious beliefs, a better education, less bullying etc. She is a single mom with two kids with only average income and says that they must pay for extra activities ie/ field trips, sports etc..and do fund raising etc. or pay out of thier own pocket for these things and plus thier teachers are underpaid compared to the my kids public school system teachers. I must admit that I wanted more for my kids own public school, however, her own story made it clear that we must support the private schools as well... 

If the argument is exclusively which of public or private school systems in the province should have priority for "limited" education resources in BC -- a glen p robbins - New Democrat government would go with the public system - no question.
 

Can someone explain the rationale funding students in Independent Schools at less than the funding per students in the local Public School? Both Public and Independent Schools are regulated and inspected according to BC statutes. Both students are being educated using the BC curriculum and are subject to Provincial Exams and FSA's. Both students are residents of BC and the children of BC residents and tax payers. What philsophical defence can be made for funding one at 100% and the other at 50% or less? If the Government has the responsibility to supply free and universal education........why is there a disparity in funding?

 

It should be simple, PUBLIC MONEY stays in PUBLIC FACILITIES!!! It should never go into the private sector unless it's life or death. 

Public money should always go to public facilities unless it is life or death. There should be no funding to private schools especially when the public schools are falling behind in funding. 

Yay to that...if all the rich kids from private school had to go to public school imagine the fuss that would be made to improve the quality and funding!!! The Liberals would have no choice but to provide adequate funding. The money is there...the government just thinks that a new dome for BC place is far more important among many other projects. 

Rachel Goddyn Its interesting that you think Special Education Assistant or teacher's aids are so generously paid! How long have you been one? Um ”¦.Never! Funny but I've been one for over a decade now and yes we're paid fairly. Considering we're basically Nurses/Teachers/Social Workers and Child Advocates.
Where in a day I'll do at least one Toileting/Changing of a client, Physio Therapy, Feeding and Distribution of Medication. Know all my subjects of Math, English, Sciences, Social Studies from K – 12, Including Wood shop, Auto Mechanics, Art, Ceramics, Photography, Computers, Cooking, First Nations Studies and Art/Carving, Physical Education/Fitness training, etc...
Of course that dose not include knowing all the Autism Spectrum Disorders, FAS, MD, Down Syndrome, First Aid, Non Violent Crisis Intervention...etc...
Not to mention all the specific one to one work with these special kids in these classes and help the general population kids including the non designated kids who would fail and or drop out without some support.
But You just like Gordo Don't have a clue as to what we do everyday and how much we are needed. Well I can tell you most SEA'S Have two jobs just to even try to have a decent standard of living, and a lot of us trying to get further education to get out of our “ generously paid” positions.
Its Ignorance like this, slinging presumptuous hurtful statements out there that really tics me off!
Finally, all that needs to be said is..... Public Schools NEED MORE FUNDING to have successful student for our future! Until you do the work of those you condemn for the wages they receive, You have no Right nor the experience to do so.
 

I am a new teacher. Statements like"unionized teachers are getting fat bonuses" and teachers are getting "fat paychecks" and teachers are "gold-diggers" are hateful and show your ignorance. I have been working as a teacher for two years. During these two years I have kept track of how many hours a day I work including lesson preparation, marking, coaching, as well as classroom time. I work an average of 11.46 hours per day. working 10 months of the year that works out to be $19 an hour. I have gone to university for 5 years and have a student debt of $30,000. A gold digger? really? My friend makes $88,000 a year as a 25 year old police officer with zero post secondary schooling.

Anyways,

Public money should go towards public education. Private education is fine but it is a luxury - as is private medical care. Those who want private medical care have the choice to do so or not but we do not expect the canadian government to spend tax dollars for their choice to go with the private system do we? I don't and i would'nt expect the government to help me pay for my kids private education if i chose to put her in a private school. Because it is a luxury and it is my choice.

As a collective group - by this I mean we are all Canadians. We support a public education system to ensure a healthy society and ensure the support and continuance of our Canadian culture. I believe that the system is doing this successfully although more often than not it is difficult to get the needed support. with more support there would be more sucess and less drop-outs - less dependants. Our public school system is not perfect but its the best we have. I think of our teacher;s union in similar terms - no, it is not perfect but it is the best we have.

The short of my opinion in terms of the article is that we should have the best public education system possible and that requires more funding. I do not think it is fair to divert funds to private school systems most of which are elite and most of which are extremely well funded, while the public school system struggle to have music programs, librarians, and aids for students with disabilities.

Recently I visited St. Georges school. they have an indoor swimming pool, university grade science labs, a full time physiotherapist on staff for their student athletes, a drama program that would make acting schools jealous and five portable computer labs (lap-tops) just to name a few of their amenities. They have entire wings of the school that have been donated by wealthy families. I was very impressed - this really was an incredible school. For locals to attend the school is something in the order of $30,000 a year. For boarders and international students I think its about double that. Why is St. Georges getting government money while Belmont High on Vancouver Island has been dealing with rats in the building and has had duct tape holding the hallway floor tiles down for over a year?

Education is just one example of how our society is increasingly being seperated in terms of the "haves" and the "have-nots." Its sad - particularly when its comes to education - one of the very basics of human rights.  

New Teacher: All that education and so little knowledge!

I won't rehash arguments made above for 1) Full per-capita funding for private schools, and 2) How private schools subsidize the public ones. Suffice to say, you have not read/digested these arguments and have made no attempt to rebut them, apart from some whining about the horror of how rich folk are allowed to spend some of their money on their kids' education.

More concerning, perhaps, is your gold-plated sense of entitlement; how after five years of university and $30,000 in debts, you deem yourself entitled to a handsome salary, even though you work only nine months of the years. And yes, you are putting in extra hours now. That, too, will pass with experience. Most teachers of my acquaintance (and they number quite a few, and with several decades of individual experience) put in no more hours per work-year than do others in the workforce (actually, even at a generous nine hours a day, teachers put in fewer overall hours). And that is not counting holidays thinly disguised as professional development days (I know, I've been there), above-average benefits and pensions, good working conditions, a militant union to support the slackers, and nearly unprecedented control over your work day.

BTW, I very much doubt your 25-year-old policeman friend makes $88,000 a year. But again, he's in the public sector and, whatever he actually makes, I have no doubt he is well emunerated for what he does.

So sad that so many of those, especially the young 'uns, who teach our children live in such a la-la-land.