People of South Asian descent across Metro Vancouver are probably rolling their eyes over recent media reports linking "South Asians" to a disproportionate percentage of gay bashings.
That's because "South Asia" has more communities and ethnic groups than most continents. It also includes more than 20 percent of the world's population.
That 20-percent figure doesn't count people of South Asian descent who trace their roots back to Fiji, Trinidad, East Africa, the United Kingdom, Southeast Asia, and other areas of the globe.
Each state in India is the size of a country. Each could easily be seen as a separate country because of all the different languages and cultures.
Punjab in the north is agrarian, mostly rural, and relatively wealthy. Traditionally, it has been the source of the vast majority of Indian immigrants to B.C.
The southern state of Kerala has one of the highest literacy rates in Asia. West Bengal has a well-deserved reputation for artistic and literary creativity. The Gujuratis, who are more apt to immigrate to the United States, often excel in business and commerce.
There are Hindus, Christians, Muslims, and a very small percentage of Sikhs in India.
If a few gay bashings were perpetrated disproportionately by people who traced their roots back to the Mexican state of Coahuila, Vancouverites would probably be a bit miffed if the headlines blazed: "North Americans beat up gays in disproportionate numbers."
Similarly, if a rural Newfoundland fisherman whacks a baby seal to death with a club, it doesn't reflect how the rest of Canadians might behave under similar circumstances.
The Nobel Prize-winning economist and Indian writer Amartya Sen summed things up well in his book Identity and Violence: The Illusion of Destiny.
Sen pointed out that we are comprised of many identities. We define ourselves by our class, our education, our sexual orientation, our religion, or our lack of religion. We also can define ourselves by our hobbies and interests, our political views, and our different family histories.
All of those come together to make up who we are.
Sen's book highlights the dangers of engaging in "reductionism", where people are defined by only one of these characteristics.
To reduce the alleged gay bashers in Vancouver to be of "South Asian" descent overlooks the fact that there probably isn't a single Ismaili Muslim among those charged.
In addition, there probably isn't a single professional of South Asian descent who was charged. I doubt there is a single university graduate among the lot.
Furthermore, none probably trace their roots back Bangladesh or Sri Lanka or Nepal, which are all part of South Asia.
Is there a former Karachi resident among the group? I doubt it. Should they all be lumped into the category of gay bashers because they happen to be of South Asian descent?
When a poorly educated, drunken, Caucasian thug who comes from a small town beats up someone of South Asian descent, the police and media often assume that the crime is based in racial hatred.
But when a poorly educated, drunken thug of South Asian descent beats up gay Caucasians, the crime is often assumed to be rooted in homophobia.
It's quite likely that there is a racial component to some of these gay bashings allegedly perpetrated by "South Asians" (but, it's worth noting, not by Gujuratis, Ismailis or South Indians).
As Sen pointed out, by reducing people to one aspect of their identity, it becomes easier to view them as different, and perhaps more threatening.
Sure, some of the gay bashers might be of South Asian descent.
They might also be of Punjabi descent.
Or they could be from a small, socially conservative village from other parts of the Indian subcontinent.
Or they could be racist alcoholics.
Or they could be guys who go to the gym and bulk up with steroids, which increases their propensity for violence.
Or they could be religious fanatics.
By reducing the gay bashers' identities to their racial origin rather than looking at the full spectrum of who they are, the media are not necessarily enhancing our understanding of the nature of the problem.
Follow Charlie Smith on Twitter at twitter.com/csmithstraight.
Most Popular
- 1. B.C. government changes rules to allow liquor licensed venues to screen movies
Comments (21) - 2. The Georgia Straight's 2012 sex survey: The lust and thrust report
- 3. Vancouver musicians get to the heart of sex, love, and rock ’n’ roll
- 4. Your horoscope for February 9 to 15, 2012
- 5. Rio Theatre owner says liquor licensing change is not a real fix Comments (3)
- 6. Former B.C. Liberal leader Gordon Wilson foresees party's doom Comments (6)
- 7. What’s the most unusual place where you’ve hooked up in the Lower Mainland?
- 8. What’s the most unusual location where you’ve masturbated? Comments (2)
- 9. Valentine's dinners for real-life relationships
- 10. Legendary arts journalist Lloyd Dykk dies at 67 Comments (10)
Comments
I am still so upset and angry with the front page article in the Province linking all South Asians as gay bashers. Are you serious?! That was the most ridiculous article I have ever read. I think the Province needs to appologize to the South Asian community for the ridicoulous accusations.
Everyone likes to put labels to people and sometimes these labels are not accurate. South Asian are in fact also Caucasian just as Arabs are also Semites.
When we face both issues of racism and homophobia, blaming a few people from one ethic community for this is a racist reaction.
We need to deal with homophobia and racism and their causes across the board and branding and blaming by anyone does not help our cause.
Imtiaz Popat
Beth
The author says it well. I was truly disturbed by the headline on the front cover of the newspaper-that-is-not-deserving-of-that-designation. Homophobia and stupidity are truly cross-cultural traits. They exist in our (Canadian, Vancouver) culture and these young men acted them out. How we deal with them and how we talk about them will illustrate what other cultural traits we (all of us) share.
Let's talk about homophobia and how to combat it. Full stop.
It's quite likely that there is a racial component to some of these gay bashings allegedly perpetrated by "South Asians" (but, it's worth noting, not by Gujuratis, Ismailis or South Indians).
The two men who beat up the couple in front of their home on Keefer were shouting homophobic slurs - nothing to do with race.
PS...It is not "rural Newfoundland fishermen" who hunt seals. They fish, Charlie. That's why they are called "Fishermen".
People who hunt seals are called "Sealers".
People who gay bash, regardless of their ethnicity are called "Idiots".
My apologies. My wording is incorrect. But I think that what the author is referring to is whitecoats, which are newborn seals.
I guess I don't understand the anger that the seal hunt induces, as chickens for the broiler are generally killed at 6 weeks old and calfs ( veal ) are slaughtered at only a few days old.
As a Newfoundlander, I find myself often defending my home province for various reasons. The seal hunt is a big one. We are not uneducated, baby animal killing barbarians. I feel that there is no place for the authors statement with regards to Newfoundlanders in an article that is clearly focused on senseless acts of violence on innocent people.
Guess what homophobic slur they used, and you can find the youth of North America using it to gay abandon because really they don't care.
You may jump to the conclusion that violent video games promotes homophobic behaviour, and you'd be wrong, since that kind of talk is on EVERY. SINGLE. GODDAM. GAME.
Typical overreactions and the hands of the
Hard Gay will make everything better. The man's a homosexual, family-friendly, pop culture icon in Japan and perhaps he could work his magic here.
Now, that those issues have cooled off and the Province has idiotically kept the irresponble boat afloat, it seems to have given the Straight the opportunity to look like the "wait, wait, hold up now, lets examine this" guys when I have personally seen Straight writers go from using "alleged gay-bashing incident" to "gay-bashing incident" without what I thought would be the important confirmation of such.
Before you guys defend or question the link between South Asians and gay-bashing, why not the same scrutiny over the UFC connection or whether the incident deserved to be labelled a gay-bashing incident in the first place? Because the South Asian/Gay-bashing connection now has the Province's face all over it and you can point the finger at the larger media establishment?
This seems to be hypocrisy of the most obvious order and would be a good opportunity for the Straight to explain why, for the record, they chose to go with the gay-bashing label and UFC connection without evidence for either along with everyone else.
Sure, some of the gay bashers might be of South Asian descent.
They might also be of Punjabi descent.
Or they could be from a small, socially conservative village from other parts of the Indian subcontinent.
Or they could be racist alcoholics.
Or they could be guys who go to the gym and bulk up with steroids, which increases their propensity for violence.
Or they could be religious fanatics."
Sure some of the gay-bashers might be UFC fans.
They might also be Lions' fans.
Or they could be Whitecaps fans.
They may even be fans of our national passion which features real brawling, concussion inducing body checks and hits from behind and with sticks and which is featured every evening on our mainstream news channels.
Or maybe the gash bashers listen to......gantsta rap!
Maybe they play Grand Theft Auto!
Perhaps they watched a Michael Bay movie!
Or...........perhaps, the incident wasnt even motivated by the victim's sexual orientation at all.
Perhaps, they were just 2 drunken idiots that were ready to scrap period.
Im not saying sexual orientation wasnt a factor but for you and every other media outlet to talk about this incident as gay-bashing implies it does.
If I, a person of an East Asian background, walked up to 2 drunken white guys and told them to piss on someone else's condo and they beat me up, would it have been an East Asian bashing incident?
Im not defending the assailant's actions in any way however if I had walked up to those guys and said what the victims said, it would be on my mind that a confrontation could be a possibility. This doesnt make it ok but its a real possibility regardless of sexual orientation or ethnicity.
The victims were obviously not targetted or sought out due to their sexual orientation. I think that much is obvious. It is possible that when the assailants turned around and confronted the victims and observed that they were gay, that could have lead to their decision to attack them. But it could have been also possible that they would have decided to fight if the victims were straight.
I ask all media outlets that ran with the gay-bashing incident label and UFC connection: why was the above not taken into account?
The Georgia Straight is just as guilty as the Province for pushing the provocative headlines and connections.
For the last few years, due to political correctness, we Vancouverites have danced around the fact that the highest profile gay bashings have been by South Asians/Indo-Canadians.
You're splitting hairs over the word "South Asian" but avoiding the main subject at hand!! Punjabi Sikhs make up the large majority of "South Asians' in Vancouver, so obviously we are not talking about people from the Maldives or Mauritius.
You seem more offended by the ethnic terminology than by the violence against gays!
Nobody not the Province or anyone has ever said that the only gay bashers are South Asians or that all South Asians gay bash. But why doesn't the violence many young men in that community feel towards gay people not need to be discussed, preferably within their own community. You think it's complete coincidence that the last two major cases have been by young men of that community?
Why do we always always skirt and dance our way around issues if they involve race rather just dealing with them head on?
Just because gay guys of European descent have called me a “fish” and a “c—t”, and have even threatened me with violence, does not give me the license to make gratuitous generalizations about any community. It demeans me and those individuals with whom I wish to engage in a dialogue with.
Furthermore, over the years, bigots have hurled anti-Semitic, anti-Muslim, and anti-First Nations’ epithets at me. I was even called a “fag” by a bunch of white guys who were in a pick-up truck while I was sashaying across the intersection of Robson and Burrard several years ago. Perhaps they were too dumb to even guess what my ethnic identity was and were thus rendered incapable of hurling the most appropriate invective against me.
And the grand CODA: Years ago, a “famous” woman of colour activist told me to get a suntan because she did not believe that I was an “authentic” woman of colour. Members of her entourage nodded like sheep and ostracized me.
People with fully operational brain cells must make a concerted effort to not devolve into communal antipathy.
Yes, political correctness can and has gotten in the way of criticizing the culture and/or religion of visibe minorities. We dont have a problem with offering honest criticism against the Christian right's views towards abortion, sexual orientation, etc. but it seems like questioning possible homophobic views from religions of non-whites will be attached with extra baggage.
However, lets also not act like the world was born yesterday. There is a reason political correctness came into place. History is a mutha. As Sarah Bernard pointed out above "it's a good thing in general, better to walk on eggshells than race-bashing" but that at the same time, the South Asian interviewee reps did not condemn the attacks either. But then again, perhaps they are sick and tired of defending themselves from the exaggerated media coverage they get over stuff like this.
The media does not come out with front page stories like "White people and gay-bashing," do they? Im sure South Asians have not been the only assailants of gay-bashing, are they? Im sure a great number of the perpetrators have been white, no?
So to that, I have to commend the writer on that observation: "When a poorly educated, drunken, Caucasian thug who comes from a small town beats up someone of South Asian descent, the police and media often assume that the crime is based in racial hatred.
But when a poorly educated, drunken thug of South Asian descent beats up gay Caucasians, the crime is often assumed to be rooted in homophobia."
Both of these assumptions need to be checked before we blast it all over the headlines (unless the media outlets can admit they are doing it to sell or ride on the hype).
Again, are we sure this particular incident was actually a gay-bashing incident? Is it not important to examine this and determine if thi reallybefore we move forward?
A little historical perspective might be necessary. Homophobia in South Asia is much less of an issue than it is here in North America. Thanks to the @$$hole bigoted Brits India had, until recently, a law that criminalized homosexuality. However, there is a long history of acceptance of homosexuality in Indian society, for example the 'hijrahs' and their role in South Asian (not only Hindu) society and culture.
When Indians, and other South Asians began migrating to Canada they brought with them their tolerance of homosexuality. Here is the main point that I am making: unlike their parents' generation, those South Asians who were born in Canada, have assumed the social 'norms' (homophobia) of the dominant ( 'white') society. In other words Canadian males of South Asian descent are just as ignorant and intolerant of the LGBT lifestyle as their knuckle-dragging 'white' Canadian brethren. They have become the 'normative' Canadian male.
What the Province newspaper and the other daily rag are guilty of is veiled racism perhaps, but certainly racialization of gay-bashing and other crimes. For example, when a man of South Asian descent killes his wife or children then the media blames the culture. However, no one blamed Allan Schoenborn's or Clifford Olsen's or Marc Lepine's 'white'-Candian culture when they killed women and children. Of course not! When a 'white' individual commits a crime, he or she is acting as an individual...BUT when a person from a visible minority does the same the 'white' media blames that person's background.
If this hypocrisy is not blatant racism, then it is surely veiled bigotry and racialization...Which in my mind, is much more dangerous.
Welcome to the world of multiculturalism.
"If this hypocrisy is not blatant racism, then it is surely veiled bigotry and racialization...Which in my mind, is much more dangerous"
While I would agree with that, I would also like to point out that the media (Straight included) first ran with this case of being a UFC fans and gay-bashing incident.
1) (Again) No discussion was had whether this was a legitimate gay-bashing incident or a violent incident where perhaps sexual orientation may not have been the motivator
2) The police finally confirmed when the 2 brothers were arrested that no UFC links were confirmed. When people go to hockey games and get drunk and get into fights after, we usually dont see "Canuck fans and violence" all over the headlines.
3) So then as the story starts to fizzle.....now it becomes a brown guys and gay-bashing thing. When white guys fight and/or attack gay guys (and we know both happen), it never becomes a white issue in the media.
So while i think the irresponsible sensationalism by media (incl the Straight) is clear, it seems to be done with elements of pinning issues done on things that are not as accepted and normalized such as white guys getting drunk, happening to watch a Canucks game, getting rowdy and fighting.
But this incident became a brown, UFC gay-bashing thing without much investigation from the media on all 3 factors. Im not saying any of the 3 factors werent worth discussing but the point was that the large finger was pointed first without it and the damage was done.
The disappointing thing is some of the media outlets that I would consider more progressive and independant and therefore still having a standard of due dillegence in investigating the issue before running with the headlines all seemed to go the same route as the Can Westers.
Xtra also chooses to allow comments such as " We need to stop immigration from these dirty fucked up sewer countries NOW," to remain attached to their electronic publication. (http://www.xtra.ca/public/National/We_were_attacked_and_savagely_beaten_...)
Anything Xtra publishes re: race issues and gay bashings needs to be taken with a grain of salt, in my opinion.
can you explain what you mean? or are you just another ignoramus who thinks a oneliner about multiculturalism says enough? Your comment makes no sense.
Racialization is more dangerous that violent racism because the process of racialization normalizes the hatred of another culture/group because of one aspect of that group (Ethnic Essentialism). For example, terrorism and the denigration of women are now solely associated with Islam. Yet numbers from statscan show that, on average, far more 'white' women are murdered than women from a 'visible minority' group. But the murder of white women is never labeled as a 'honour killing' crime.
Furthermore, people completely ignore the way that Orthodox Jews and many fundamentalist Christian sects in the US and Canada treat their female members. For example, the the Hutterites, Bountiful, Amish, and Orthodox Jewish communities in Montreal, and New York. And the public and especially the rightwing media (of which most outlets seems to lean towards) ignore Christian influenced terrorism. It is institutionalized bigotry on their part. Sadly, the majority..ie 'white' Christians fall for it.
In this case the Straight and Mr. Smith are equally at fault for reinforcing this dangerous stereotype, and fermenting hatred of the racialized "Other." Besides, I have to say that this article is poorly written. Mr. Smith states many facts about the Sout-Asian-Sikh- Indian-hyphen-hyphen community. But they are not put into context, nor are they analyzed in any significant way? What was the purpose of including these numbers and the migration patterns of South Asia's ethnic groups Mr. Smith?
Racism can only end when people stop generalizing about and bashing people of British descent also. It's equally offensive. If you disagree, you're part of the problem. Yes. You are.
Beth
Are you people saying that there is no problem of homophobia in the Indo-Canadian community? It should be never be addressed, talked about, or made reference to, ever?
Well, when a specific community has a problem, sometimes it takes a bit of uncomfortable attention to get that community to look at the problem.
If the Norwegian-Canadian, Greek-Canadian or Swiss-Canadian communities exhibit long and ongoing tendencies towards violent homophobia, then yes of course, they should also be forced to look inwardly at their issues, but unfortunately there isn't such a strong trend in those communities.
"Are you people saying that there is no problem of homophobia in the Indo-Canadian community?"
-Are you people saying that there is no problem of homophobia in the White Canadian community? If the answer is yes, again, where are the "White People, Gay-Bashing and Homophobia" front page headlines?
It seems to me that the issue is homophobia in our society in general so I would ask that why the "South Asians" get singled out with a front page article blasting their names singularly in association with it? No I am not saying that anyone should be free from criticism if the stats point that direction but it seems to be some are free in a way, some are not as it pertains to the media.
The problem does get a little grey and murky because political correctness will get in the way of criticizing visible minority cultures but a headline like this is proof why the egg shell conditions have been created in the first place.
I think the situation gets even murkier if we investigate more closely what I think the most important issue was to begin with: was the attack actually a gay-bashing incident?
Was the attack motivated by sexual orientation? It seems to be that this is a pretty dam important question as well, no? But it seems the media ran with it being one without confirmation.
Does this not bother anyone?
Without doing this, does it not hurt the times when we will have an actual confirmed case and then need to discuss it? Many people may get turned immune to the headlines when the headlines are used in shaky fashion.
Well, i think you kind of nailed the problem because one problem was made into multiple problems. A "racist" front page headline will not exactly get the discussion going in the right direction, will it?
Going back to Allen Smith's comment about being offended that another issue has hijacked the original, well, I think we can point blame for that at the Province (just like the Straight and everyone else tried to tie it as a UFC issue at first).
Are we seeing some kind of pattern here yet?
either you did not read my entire comment OR (and probably more likely) you are completely ignorant about the @$$hole Brits who colonized South Asia and ruled with a vicious racist hand for over 200 years! It is THOSE @$$holes that I am referring to. THEY brought homophobia to South Asia. I guess facts can cloud your judgment.
@ Jamie
If I follow your argument (with difficulty), you are suggesting that a person's ethnicity is linked to the crime: South Asian to gaybashing and gang violence...Muslim/Arab to honour killing....
You suggest that these communities need to "to deal with a problem" and that gaybashing has "to do with cultural legacies." Well why hasnt the "white" community gotten together to address the violent drug trade perpetrated by the HA or the Bacon brothers and their thugs!?
Exactly whose "cultural legacy" are you referring to? There is no legacy of gaybashing in South Asian cultural. As I said before it is a cultural norm of "white" European culture that these Indo-Candian men have adopted.
Statistically more murders are committed by white males than by visible minorities in Canada. If you dont believe me that look up the numbers at the Statscan website.
www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-224-x/85-224-x2007000-eng.pdf
But then again facts can get in the way of your judgment.
@ Allen Smith
I agree with you completely that "race has taken over" this issue...BUT it was the Province newspaper that made this a "race" issue. Not the Indo-Canadian community. As a Canadian of South Asia descent I am offended by the homophobia in the South Asian community...however it exists in all ethnicities.
This is not the first time that the local media has racialized homophobia, so-called "honour killings" (please click the statscan website and compare the number of "white" women killed to the number of "visible minorities" killed), terrorism, gangs.
Why hasnt the "white" community gotten together to address the violent drug trade perpetrated by the HA or the bacon brothers and their thugs!?
As I said before, homophobia is NOT inherent in South Asian culture. It is a social/cultural evil that Indo-Canadian males have adopted from the mainstream "white" community.
Yes, I am saying that that various ethnic communties "need to deal" with attitudes or customs or whatever when these oppose the values that the majority of Canadians exhibit. The "white community", as you call it, has spent generations purging itself of it's bigotry. It's still a work in progress, but to deny that it isn't because the government hasn't used unconstitutional practices to detain the HA or other "white gangs" in the name of reforming our "community" is absurd. What the statistics seem to suggest is that there is something going on in the Indo-Canadian community, specificly in the tendency for males to be violent towards homosexuals. Whether the the product of the "Indo" part or the "Canadian" part of their identity is irrelevent and only serves to deflect criticism away from where it is deserved. In other words, who cares? The problem is still there and the proof is in the numbers.
"As I said before, homophobia is NOT inherent in South Asian culture. It is a social/cultural evil that Indo-Canadian males have adopted from the mainstream "white" community."
Check out this link... it's show's societal attitudes towards homosexuality broken down by country. So much for that huh? I guess the "white community" has spread it's hate so much, they've been able to infect not only the Indian sub -contenent, but also much of Africa and the Middle East. You saying that white people spread homophobia accross the globe is a fact does not make it so. Though it is interesting that everything seems to be white people's fault. I haven't heard that before...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Societal_Attitudes_Towards_Homosexuality(Pew2002).png
@ Jamie
"The "white community", as you call it, has spent generations purging itself of it's bigotry."
Really?????
I suggest you do some historical research before you make such statements of profundity. Non-whites in Canada did not get the right to vote until 1949...hardly "generations" ago! First Nations had to wait even longer! Work place racism was the norm, even in the 1970s and '80s. I personal have been on the receiving end of a bigot's mouth more time than I can count. But how would you know these things?
"various ethnic communties "need to deal" with attitudes or customs or whatever when these oppose the values that the majority of Canadians exhibit"
-Is the institutionalization of racism against the First Nations one of these "Canadian" values? Or how and why are neo-nazi groups allowed to exist in Canada, and have their own websites and hold rallies in Calgary for example?
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/2010/03/21/calgary-anti-racism-pr...
Is this kind of hatred a "Canadian value" that you speak of? Where is your condemnation of these attitudes?
Where is your condemnation of these neo-nazi groups? You only seem to acknowledge the "attitudes or customs" of the racialized "Other" instead the institutionalized bigotry that people of "colour" face on a daily bases. BUT again, how would you know about that situation?
"but to deny that it isn't because the government hasn't used unconstitutional practices to detain the HA or other "white gangs" in the name of reforming our "community" is absurd"...
-this makes absolutely NO sense. Can you please clarify cause I'm confused by your statement?
"What the statistics seem to suggest is that there is something going on in the Indo-Canadian community, specificly in the tendency for males to be violent towards homosexuals"...
_OK I admit I didnt read the original article in the Province because, quite frankly it's a shit paper. I think we can at least agree on that! Can you show me these statistics that demonstrate a disproportionate rate of gaybashing in the South Asian community in Vancouver? I havnt seen the numbers.
Again I am NOT saying their isnt a problem with gaybashing in the South Asian community. Clearly there is, BUT is the issue the gaybasher's attitude or his cultural background? You seem to suggest that my culture is to blame. As some who actually knows the culture and the people (unlike yourself, who just reads crap in the papers, I suspect) I can tell you that homophobia is not a cultural norm in South Asian society. Believe what you want but as a member of that community I actually know what I'm talking about...unlike you.
"What the statistics seem to suggest is that there is something going on in the Indo-Canadian community, specificly in the tendency for males to be violent towards homosexuals. Whether the the product of the "Indo" part or the "Canadian" part of their identity is irrelevent and only serves to deflect criticism away from where it is deserved. In other words, who cares? The problem is still there and the proof is in the numbers."
- Do you even read what you write??? In this statement you completely contradict yourself. It's quite laughable actually. In the 1st sentence you say that my ethnicity/culture is to blame but then you contradict yourself by saying that it doesnt matter if it's the "Indo" or "Canadian" part that is to blame..ending with a "who cares?" LOL dude! YOU are criticizing their ethnicity, I am NOT. As I said before and I will say it again”¦As someone who is actually a part of ”˜that’ community, homosexuality is not a cultural norm in ”˜our’ society. It is a cultural import from mainstream “Canadian” society. You can believe what you want, but I actually know what I am talking about.
I saw that link”¦Only problem”¦we are talking about an issue specific to Canada. I do not deny or contest those numbers about attitudes in other countries. I am equally disgusted and shocked by the findings. Aren't you?
Regarding the spread of illegalizing homosexuality it WAS the British penal code that they imposed on the people in Africa and Asia that they colonized and subjugated to their savage and racist rule. You do know about the British Empire don't you? Again I think your understanding and knowledge of world history and post-colonial events seem limited. please read about it more and then we can have a more intelligent and factual based dialogue.
Oh, and according to your rules, I have to condemn every act of "white bigotry" before I can comment on another culture. So... the same pointless rule applies to you? Nope, I guess it doesn't.
And here lies the core of your hateful "argument":
"As someone who is actually a part of ”˜that’ community, homosexuality is not a cultural norm in ”˜our’ society. It is a cultural import from mainstream “Canadian” society."
Sure sure, homosexuality is a cultural import. No one on the Indian Subcontinent was gay before the arrival of white people. Kind of reminds me of the president of Iran saying that there are no gay people in Iran. Too bad there are white people here, or else no Indian person would be gay... which is what I think you are truly upset about.
"Did you forget about the abolition of slavery (much of which still continues in the "non-white world""-
Can you tell me, in which country or region of the world, do 10S OF MILLIONS of people "continue" to be, literally, put into shackles and auctioned off like animals? As was the case of white slave owners of black slaves.
"Did you forget about the abolition of slavery"
–hmmm...So we should be thankful that 'white' people abolished slavery...something that they themselves carried out for 200 years? Interesting
Also, through your lack of historical and present global knowledge, you are ignorant of the neo-slavery perpetuated by the slave-trader like multinationals (mostly 'western' and 'white' majority) in their sweatshops in the so-called Third World.
"Or how about universal sufferage? Or how about the implimentation of the idea of human rights?"
– do you not find it ironic that in Canada and other so-called western nations that (white) women were given the right to vote before people of non-European origin? How does that historical fact fit into this statement? Or that human rights are selectively applied depending on our foreign policy or economic interests abroad?
"Let go of your hatred of white people and look at history objectively"
–this one is almost too funny considering ALL of my friends are "white". And, ask any historian or someone who has studied history at a university level (like I have -graduate level), that history can not and is not looked at "objectively".
So this is not "ignorance" on my part...rather firsthand experience and critical knowledge.
"Oh, and according to your rules, I have to condemn every act of "white bigotry" before I can comment on another culture. So... the same pointless rule applies to you? Nope, I guess it doesn't. "
-I, unlike you, actually live in two cultures: mainstream 'white'-Canadian and visible minority Indo-Canadian. Therefore, I actually have experience and knowledge of both cultures, societies, norms, histories, languages, ethnicities, etc. Which you do not. Thus I can apply critical race theory, within a post-colonial framework, to the dialectics of 'white' hegemony vis-a-vis visible minority rights in a 'western' liberal-democracy. A mouth full wouldnt you say?
Now...let's get back the whole point of this debate- gay bashing.
"Sure sure, homosexuality is a cultural import. No one on the Indian Subcontinent was gay before the arrival of white people."
– You seriously have trouble realized the thesis of my argument, dont you?
Homophobia is NOT something that is part of Indian culture and society...in India that is. Also, if you actually knew any Canadians of South Asian descent (which I doubt you do), you would know that homophobia is only limited to those (males) who grew up in Canada and consider themselves Canadian first and Indian (Punjabi, Gujurati, Bengali etc) second.
Before Europeans arrived in India, homosexuality was accepted in society. Because, unlike the Abrahamic religions which believe homosexuality to be a sin, the Dharmic tradition (Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism) believes that the soul has no male/female form: so it does not matter if you love someone of your or the opposite sex.
Fast forward to modern Canadian society and we see that some young men of South Asian, descent born and brought up here, engage in gaybashing (which as I have repeatedly stated in not intrinsic to our culture).
So, again, in sociological academic terms (have you studied that discipline at least? and I hope you understand what I am talking about)...homophobia is NOT a normative aspect of Indian society. These meatheads are homophobic because they have learned this from their meatheads 'white' friends, and have internalized this as part of their individuality, NOT as an aspect of their culture.
Yet, you continue to argue (very pathetically I might add) that it is a part of "Indo-Candian" culture.
If getting rid of homophobia amongst Canadians of South Asian descent is "a work in progress" then so is "white" bigotry towards the racialized "Other".