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Gwynne Dyer: The Armenian massacres and the French presidential elections

French president Nicolas Sarkozy sucks up to Armenians just in time for elections.

Aleph
By Gwynne Dyer,

I go to France quite often, but after this article is published, I may be liable to arrest if I set foot in the country.

The French parliament has just passed a bill, proposed by President Nicolas Sarkozy’s party, that will make it a crime to question whether the Armenian massacres in eastern Turkey in 1915 qualified as a genocide. Sarkozy will doubtless sign it into law next month, just in time for the presidential elections.

It won’t just be a crime in France to deny that hundreds of thousands of Armenians, perhaps as many as a million, were killed in eastern Anatolia in 1915, and that it was the responsibility of the Turkish state. That is a historical fact, and only fools, knaves, and Turkish ultra-nationalists deny it. It will also be a crime, punishable by one year in prison and a fine of up to 45,000 euros ($58,000), even to question the use of the word “genocide”.

“Genocide” doesn’t just mean killing a lot of people, even a lot of civilians. If it did, then the United States would be guilty of genocide because of Hiroshima. Genocide is a deliberate attempt to wipe out much or all of a specific ethnic, linguistic or religious group.

Words matter. The descendants of the Armenians who were killed in 1915, most of whom now live in Lebanon, France, or the United States, desperately want what happened to their great-grandparents to be defined as a genocide and not just a calamity of war. They have even been accused of “Holocaust envy”: the belief that they are being short-changed if the Armenian tragedy is not given the same status as the Nazi genocide of the European Jews.

The state of Israel, interestingly, has never been comfortable with this claim, and avoids the word “genocide” when discussing the massacre of the Armenians in 1915.

Of course, this might just be a Jewish desire to ensure that no other group’s tragedy is seen as comparable to that of the European Jews. But there are concrete reasons for the Israeli unease with the simple equation: Jewish holocaust = Armenian genocide.

About half of the Jewish population of Europe in 1939 was dead by 1945; about half of the Armenians living in eastern Turkey in 1914 were dead by 1918. But what distinguishes the Holocaust from most other atrocities is not the number of deaths, or even the proportion of the population that was killed. It is the motivation behind the killings.

The European Jews were killed as an act of deliberate German policy: a peaceful civilian population was rounded up and transported to camps where they were systematically murdered. What happened to the Armenians of Turkey was less systematic, and probably unplanned.

There is no equivalent in Turkish history to the Wannsee conference of January 1942, at which the Nazis planned the “final solution” to the “Jewish problem”. The mass deportation of Armenians in the First World War, during which hundreds of thousands of them died, took place as Russian troops invaded eastern Anatolia and Armenian revolutionary groups staged uprisings in support of them.

The Armenian uprisings of 1915 were tiny and ineffectual, but the Dashnak and Hnchak revolutionaries had indeed been conspiring with both the Russians and the British to support planned invasions of eastern Anatolia. The British attack was switched west to the Dardanelles quite late in the planning process, but the Russian offensive actually happened.

The Turkish government was panicked by the uprisings behind the front and ordered the mass deportation of the civilian Armenian population to Syria. Regular Turkish troops could not be spared from the fighting, so most of the job of “guarding” the columns of Armenian deportees marching through the mountains to Syria was given to Kurdish tribesmen, who proceeded to rob, rape, and murder them in huge numbers.

But Armenian civilians living in the cities of western Turkey were not massacred or deported in 1915. Many Armenians in eastern Turkey who were rich enough to buy train tickets to Syria only had to walk where the tracks had not yet been laid. Most of the Armenians who made it to Syria alive were held in camps there, but they were not murdered and burned in ovens. It was horrible, but does it qualify as a case of genocide?

Successive Turkish governments have undermined their own case by insisting that it didn’t happen at all. That is dishonest and stupid. There were certainly horrendous massacres, though the exact numbers of dead cannot be known. However, the use of the word “genocide” remains open to question—but it will soon be a criminal offence in France to say so.

Have the French politicians gone mad? Not at all. It’s election time, and there are half a million voters of Armenian descent in France.

The Armenian massacres were officially recognized as a genocide in France just before the 2001 elections. A law criminalizing any questioning of that definition was passed by the National Assembly just before the 2007 elections, but narrowly rejected by the Senate. This time it made it through the Senate, too. So if you’re in France, watch what you say.

Comments

Harry-X
obviously you are a moron and paid by the Turkish lobby... you even contradict yourself.... If I was a "rich Armenian" living in other parts of Western Ottoman Empire, why would I even want to leave if the Empire was such heaven and only a few bad apple Armenians were killed? Why not check Rafael Lemkin's reason for coining the term "Genocide"... it was ironically based on what happened to the Armenians... Again, you are a moron and whore.
 
voiceofreason
These sorts of questions and debates are best left to historians, not politicians.
 
armen
A wishy washy article pretends to be objective.It was a Genocide .They were killed ,deported and raped simply because they were Armenians yet had contributed tremendously in all aspects of Ottoman life.They were the Architects Doctorrs and Business people Yes they had to fight for their freedom.How wrong is that?Turkey will sooner or later admit to it.Articles such as yours just prolong the wait.France was right .It is not for Armenian votes .There are as many Turks living in France as Armenians.This law is against the denial of all Genocides ,yes inspired by the Armenian Genocide just as it is against the law in France to deny the Holocaust.
 
e.a.f.
Sarkozy must be crazy. To be sent to jail for exercising your freedom of speech? I thought we just went through the Arab Spring. Of course if several hundred thousand people started discussing this and violating the law, how can he put them all in jail? Well he could but he certainly would look like an idiot.

I do not see how this "law" can be up held in the courts. Or perhaps Sarkosy just wants it to be in effect until after the elections.

With a western government passing a law such as this we should all be concerned. Given Harper's majority he to could pass a law such as this. How about making it illegal to speak out against the proposed pipelines or First Nations poverty.

We all need to speak out about these sorts of laws Our freedom of speach is at risk.

First Sarkosy banned the wearing of "head coverings" in schools, now you can't question the murder of Armenians as a form of genocide. I do hope other world leaders have a chat with this idiot at the upcoming conferance.
 
Big Jay
Harry - besides the offensive name calling, you seem to also have some issues with reading comprehension: "...Armenian civilians living in the cities of western Turkey were not massacred or deported ...".
If you cannot stay away from ad hominem attacks (you might have to look that one up), then try to refrain from commenting on articles you did not understand.
 
HellSlayerAndy
"Genocide is a deliberate attempt to wipe out much or all of a specific ethnic, linguistic or religious group."

Yet Nazis believed they were The Master Race -- ergo virtually anyone other ETHNIC group they murdered would be genocidal, no? Why split hairs over whether the Nazis ranked Jews lower than Slavs..technically speaking with this def. the Nazis biggest genocide was the Russian people?

Why only religion and not political groups? Killing millions of politicos (Hitler's Commissar Order) is somehow more acceptable than killing a million religious people or ethnic people?

What self serving twisted logic to suddenly decide people murdered for their beliefs, regardless of what they are, are not worthy of some ghoulish ranking system again splitting hairs over genocide or massacre?

Even more shocking, that mass civilian killings, like Hiroshima or Nagasaki, patently illegal under international law, are somehow airbrushed aside by not seeing that the Japanese were also a ethnic group and US propaganda at the time also treated them as 'subhumans'. (War Without Mercy) In fact that same Nazi like classification system was well in place when that same country murder nearly 4 million Vietnamese, mostly civilians, under relentless carpet bombing, as well as chemical and biological weapons -- if all it takes is to simply re-classify a civilian as a commie or Islamist...why is this creep even bothering with fine tuning terms like Genocide?

But let's not even bring up the many many genocides committed routinely by the Europeans done simply for money and territory...I'm mean really, does it matter to the victim what the murderer's rationale is...Is being murdered for the Right of Norman Conquest or manifest destiny somehow better than Race Eugenics?

Crazy old man would have us think that mass expulsion and slow death are not genocidal acts -- wonder where he got that idea, eh?
 
Dyer Straits for Denialists
Every once in a while this paid puppet of the Turkish lobby spews out another nonsensical piece of garbage. Dyer, a would be champion of freedom of expression/press and thought is to advise France as to what laws it passes. I guess that's freedom of expression for you. Perhaps he should visit Turkey (invoices in hand) and inquire into Article 301 (a law against insulting Turkishness) to find what censorship of expression really is. I daresay he prolongs the inevitable. France takes it's direction in passing a law from reputable historical bodies (International Association of Genocide Scholars) for one. It amuses to see that Dyer still swings with the Sultan; oh and... keep the cheques coming. Bravo France!
 
cochran
Jewish people certainly were victims of "genocide"; it was written into the laws of the Third Reich. You could be arrested and punished, and murdered by the Nazi state for assisting any Jewish person, during that period of infamy. However, the Jewish people do not have a monopoly on the "holocaust". As a poster states above, the Russian (Soviet) and many other Slavs were murdered in the millions(14,000,000); Jews by their own claims, say 6,000,000 perished. To state that the Armenians were not victims of a genocide, is an attempt to re-write history, a disturbing trend, now appearing in our neo-con main-stream-media, for the purpose (this writer's opinion) to confuse and incite, against the will of many who wish to make wars history, and advocate for a world at peace.
 
ZoodHye
Historians have already termed the massacres as Genocide for the last almost 100 years. So stop saying leave it to the historians! There are numerous documents about the systematic decision by the Turkish government to eliminate Armenians to build a Turkic belt in the Caucasus.
Check the historic archives, specially in Washington D.C., read the 'real' history before reading false articles like this.
Even the International Genocide Scholars have agreed that it was the 1st Genocide in the 20th Century.
 
jirairt
Dwyer is an airport reporter, an instant expert on most international affairs, as witnessed his reports on the Middle East or his questioning of the veracity of the Genocide of Armenians by Turkey.
His immoral starting point on the Armenian issue starts from the following premise: Turkey is a NATO ally; let's not antagonize Ankara--truth and the slaying of 1.5 million innocent Armenians be damned. He could read a thousand books by non-Armenian historians and genocide scholars and refuse to change his stand because he starts from the so-called real politik stance.
I comment with mixed feelings because these comments are used by mercenaries like Dwyer to persuade publishers that they write interesting copy which gets response.
 
Birdy
So they've started putting people in cages for not thinking the "right" way, or disputing history... This should end well.

It's a shame writers and philosophers haven't been warning us of this for decades.
 
Gamavor
There are few intentional in my opinion inaccuracies in this article. First, there is no doubt that Armenians from western turkish cities were also subject to government ordered massacres. In Constantinople 250 peaceful Armenian intellectuals were rounded up and executed with no obvious reason. The plan of the turkish government at the time was to behead any resistance by eliminating the leaders in the Armenian community. Secondly, Armenians were not capable of instigating Russians to invade Turkey. These were the war plans of the Russian Imperial court as laid down in the Antante offensive against the Central forces. Thirdly, no Armenians made it by "buying train tickets" to Syria. This is outright lie. The only way survivors made it were through French military and commercial ships through the ports of Cilicia, and those that bribed turkish officials to issue them fake passports. Another number of Armenians that survived were those that retreated to the Caucasian Armenia and those who made it through the death marches, also organized by the Turkish government. It should be noted that in many places where Armenians were minority, there were no deportation orders but outright massacre of the civilians. Such places were Trabzon, Sebastia, etc. to the heart of Anatolia.

 
Jda
Mr. Dyer engages in a set of knowing falsehoods:

1. The Jewish Genocide is not the exclusive template for Genocide. Rafael Lemkin, who coined the word, had the Jewish and Armenian Genocides in mind. Google his name and "CBS interview" to see for yourself.

2. Dyer poses the " dispute" in exactly the way the Turkish state does: that the Turks and Armenians dispute whether there was a Genocide, as if this was a parochial affair.
In truth, the AG is the second most studied Genocide. All but a handful of scholars conclude it was Genocide.

3. And while we're on the subject of scholars, let's remember thet a growing number of Turkish scholars have determined it was a Genocide: Umit Ungor, Halil Berktay, Taner Akcam, Selim Deringil, Fuat Dundar, Fatma Gocek, Ahmet Ihnsel for starters.

4. Armenians armed themselves in self defense after decades of slaughter at the hands of the state, and by Kurds who raided, raped, and killed Armenians with impunity. The Ottomans seized upon self defense to kill Armenians everywhere in Anatolia and European Thrace.

5. 200,000 Armenian men conscripted into the Ottoman Army were disarmed and murdered on orders of the state while serving. What could more clearly show state murder?

6. A new book by Akcam demonstrates that post war Turkish trials of the Turkish criminals established Genocide.

Dyer, now relegated to the internet, is a favorite among Turkish denialists for good reason.
 
Erkin Baker
Bravo to Gwynn Dyer for pointing out the obvious: "Liberty, equality, and fraternity" What a paradox! Where is the logic of calling the Armenian losses during WW I a genocide while whitewashing the collaboration of the Vichy Government with the Nazis, as well as their colonial brutalities in Indochina and Algiers! Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones at others!

It should be pointed out that, unless one goes to France and utters a denial of this law, it and other resolutions passed by the parliaments or Congress of any state is not worth the paper they are written on. The Jewish Holocaust was proven absolutely to be a result of the intention of obliterating a religious group by the Nuremberg Trials; whereas the Turks were not ever found to be guilty of war crimes. (Refer: Malta Tribunal during 1919-1921).

The Foreign Minister of Turkey, Mr. Davutoglu, an astute scholar, was right where he just said: "A new era of Inquisition" has started in Europe.

Mrs. Erkin Baker
 
Stephen Pacarynuk
Thank you Mr. Dyer for finding yet another political hot potato. As I read the article I thought it was a pretty tame piece about the French government trying buy a few votes for the next election. But then the comments!!! Wow, you'd think he had been defending child prostitution or claiming climate change is a fact. So, Thanks again Mr Dyer for cutting edge article.
 
David Beck
The mentioned WW I era events in Eastern Anatolia were never tried by international tribunal; the intent to exterminate Armenians was never established; no court verdict characterizing events as genocide per UN convention was issued. Not to mention that 527,000 Turks were massacred at the same time and the same place by paramilitaries of ARF Dashnaktsutiun - Armenia's national-socialists. So without court decision, blaming one side is unfair and immoral to say the least.
 
Diran Akir
"I go to France quite often, but after this article is published, I may be liable to arrest if I set foot in the country." I can think of nothing that makes me happier with the French law than this. I hope the very slippery Mr. Dyer slips up and makes the mistake of stepping onto French soil. I'd love to see what happens.

Heavily hedging his point he says, "What happened to the Armenians of Turkey was less systematic, and probably unplanned." Can he be more forthright than this? Of course not, that is not what he is about. And as to his laughable point about the Armenians
in western Turkey being spared, does he think the hundreds of Armenian intellectuals and civic leaders who were rounded up in Istanbul on April 24, 1915 and sent into the interior to be murdered by government goons were something other than civilians? ?
He is a preposterous fraud.
 
Kirlikovali
Armenians have a cause, not a case. They took up arms against their own government. They joined the invading enemy armies. They wrekaed havoc among the unprotected Muslim villages of Anatolia with their Huncak, Dashnak, Ramgavar, and other bands and thughs. They demanded territory for what can only be described as an apartheid (i.e. the Greater Armenia.) These and other such aspects are grouped under the "NINE T's OF THE TURKISH ARMENIAN CONFLICT". You ignore these and you will get nowhere. You ignore Turkish suffering and you will not get closure, French law or not. The assertion of Armenian Genocide is based on a racist and dishonest version of history. Racist because Turkish suffering is deliberately ignored; dishonest because these 9 T's are ignored. Look at this 1906 photo of Cadets at an Armenian Military Academy established in Bulgaria with all in uniforms and the Russian "Mosin" weapons brandished: www.ethocide.com . This one photo destroys all Armenian arguments: that Armenians were peaceful, that they were poor/starving; that all happened one day in 1915 without provocation; and that Armenians never killed any Turks. How much evidence does one need to WAKE UP and smell the Armenian deception? Armenian sufferin? Yes, but along with Tyrkish suffering. Armenian genocide? No, not by even a long shot.



The trouble with Armenians is that they want to have the cake and eat it, too. The totally ignore the six T's of the Turkish-Armenian conflict: tumulkut (revolts), terrorism, treason, territorial demands, Turkish suffering at the hands of Armenians, TERESET )temporary resettlelment
 
Leone
This reminds me of the debate over whether genocide was occurring in Rwanda and we heard the UN claim that while there was no genocide there were "acts of genocide" occurring. A reporter then asks the famous question, "How many acts of genocide does it take before it's classified a genocide?"
 
Jake Threefeathers
How do you say chutzpah in French?

Does France have a law prohibiting the denial of massacres committed by France under the rule of the "Ogre of Corsica"?

The height-challenged Napoleon Bonaparte (no offense to Sarkozy who seems to be ailing from a 'Napoleon complex') was responsible for the deaths of 4 million human beings when he and France went on a rampage.

When you compare the population numbers of the Napoleon era to the numbers of the Hitler era, you will see that Napoleonic France killed more people than did Hitlerian Germany.
 
Jake Threefeathers
Would I be punished in France if I were to deny that the French, including French Armenians, committed massive atrocities against humanity in Algeria and IndoChina?
 
jda
Kirlikovali is the President of the Assembly of Turkish American Associations. Before he took this job, he littered the internet with the most vile and degrading racial and essentialist attacks upon Armenians and Mexicans.

For example, on the day a Turkish nationalist shot Hrant Dink to death five years ago, Kirlikovali wrote in Turkish Digest that the killer was probably an "anti-Turk" which = Armenian.

In a piece dated 10/16/2010 piece in TurkishNY, he wrote that modern day Armenians were born of a criminal culture of theft and violence. I'm sure that Hitler used the same imagery in telling his legions to kill Jews and Roma.

In an undated piece in Turkla.com. Kirlikovali wrote that the average Diaspora Armenian in California today wanted to kill any Turk he saw "on sight."

Shame on this racist and those who elected him. It might interest the readers to know that Mr. Dyer is quoted on the front page of Kirlikovali's ATAA website.
 
Jake Threefeathers
Mr. Dyer correctly states that most of the killings were done by Kurdish tribesmen. However, he omits mentioning that the Kurdish attacks were in retaliation for atrocities committed by vicious Armenian goon squads who set upon defenseless villages whose able-bodied men were all away at half dozen war fronts defending the nation from invasion. The Armenians massacred women, children, infants.

The difference is the Armenians did it first, and that matters. When you decide to fire a bullet at me, you forfeit your life. You may not then bellyache that while you only fired a few rounds at me, I replied with a volley. This is called war, not genocide.

The dissembling, revisionist Armenian slicks have to face their own dark past and digest the lesson that if you do not want to be shot at, do not fire that first round. If Johnny Reb had not fired at Union troops in Fort Sumter, 620,000 Americans would not have died in the U.S. Civil War. Again, take that number and compare it with today's population. You will see that six million people died in the bloodiest war of U.S. history. For that, Abe Lincoln is hailed as a great hero and leader. Johnny Reb committed treason. Lincoln acted to preserve the union of his nation. In the Ottoman Empire, treacherous Armenians committed treason and were the fifth column. Ottoman leaders acted to preserve the union of their nation. They acted to protect the rest of the Ottoman citizenry from the marauding Armenian bands of hoodlums and terrorists. The Armenian terrorists of that era make today's Osama bin Laden and his hoodlums look like Mickey Mouse operators.

The principle of "sauce for goose, sauce for gander" must apply. If the Ottoman leaders are guilty of genocide, then Abe Lincoln is guilty of an even bigger genocide. And yet, they build monuments to him and his face is on the five-dollar bill. Go figure.

Bear in mind a thought from the bombastic and ruthless Gen. Curtis LeMay. He admitted that by any measure, if WWII had ended differently, he and the rest of the U.S. gang could and would have been put on the dock for massive crimes against humanity. But also keep in mind that it matters who fired the first shot. If Pearl Harbor had not happened, Curtis LeMay, Hiroshima and Nagasaki would not have happened.
 
Ezgug Ozkok
"The difference is the Armenians did it first"

Have a citation for this, Jakey-boy, or are you still dreaming your Pan-Turanist dream?
 
Ezguk Ozkok
"Would I be punished in France if I were to deny that the French, including French Armenians, committed massive atrocities against humanity in Algeria and IndoChina?"

Jake, you are either Turkish or you are beneath reproach. Either way, you are just simply a liar.
 
Kirlikovali
Armenian Started Fighting Their Own Ottoman Government and Neighbors Long Before 1915.

Armenians took up arms against their own government since 1862 when the first armed insurrection and other bloody revolts were recorded. (Nalbandian).

Armenian insurrection got worse in 1880s after Armenakan (1882) and Hunchaks (1887) revolutionary parties were established. Armenian revolts, terrorism, and treason reached epidemic proportions in 1890s after Dashnaks (1890) were established (Uras).

ARF used Russian made Mosin weapons to attack and kill Ottoman Muslims since 1893. (ARF publication: "Epic Wars", Houshamatyan...)

The “Dictionary of WWI" by Stephen Pope & Elizabeth-Anne Wheal, 2003, ISBN 0 85052 979-4, states on page 34, that 120,000 Muslims, mostly Turkish, were killed by Armenian nationalists by December 1914.


And that does not even take into account the infamous Van Rebellion by Armenians in April of 1915.


So, the premise that Armenian did not fight until after 1915 or that they were inbnocent by standers or that they were poor-starving Armenian women and children are deliberate misrepresentation aimed at deceiving the world as they are demonstrably absurd and baseless.


Why is it so difficult for Armenian lobby to comprehend that the Van Revolt by Armenians—where about 40,000 Muslim inhabitants of the town were cut down by Armenians and the city was turned over to Russian invader—is the EQUIVALENT TO 9/11 FOR THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE?


Consider this: The U.S. crossed oceans and continents to wage a trillion dollar global war on terrorism because about 3,000 of its citizens were killed on American soil. Why is it, then, so difficult to understand that the Ottoman Empire, having lost 120,000 of its citizens, resorted to similar , but much lesser, measures of TERESET (Temporary Resettlement) of the perpetrators?


Rephrased, how can 3,000 victims in 2001 justify a international, global war, but 120,000 victims in 1914 (and many more in 1915) do not justify even a domestic, local TERESET ?

Armenian claims of genocide ignore Turkish suffering at the hands of Armenians; dismiss Armenian terrorism, raids, bombings, assassinations, terrorism, revolts and treason; disregard Armenian demands for territory onwhich Armenians were a minority(apartheid).



Ergun Kirlikovali

Son of Turkish Survivors from both paternal and maternal sides

 
Gamavor
Freedom of speech had never been designed as a license to lie and harm human dignity! Freedom of speech is the utmost guarantor of the supremacy of the LAW! And the LAW in France says that what happened in the Ottoman Empire between 1915-1923 was GENOCIDE! 1,5 million Armenians (of total 1,9 million Armenians have been wiped out of their ancestral homes), 300 000 Pontic Greeks and 4-500 000 Assyrians were also wiped out of their lands. It was a plan to create a Pan-Turkic State, stretching from the Black Sea to China, and if the Turks have succeeded, now you all defenders of freedom of speech, would have had names like Mehmet and Hassan!
 
Jake Threefeathers
How do you say odious hypocrisy in French?

So if you don't toe the line of the great Armenian hate propaganda machine, If you reject Armenian dogma, you can be fined and imprisoned by France, the great land of the Vichy? Pierre Lavalle and Marshall Petain must be laughing in their graves, because most of these Armenian-bought French politicians of today are descendants of the Nazi collaborators who handed over their own citizens to the Nazi extermination camps.

These French political prostitutes and the Armenian money and votes to which they pander, have to get one thing through their opportunistic skulls : No one alive today, be he Turkish or non-Turkish, has to accede to, or for that matter, has to reject the pushy and arrogant demands of the Armenian slicks for the recognition of an obscene canard of an Armenian "genocide".

"Consensus opinion," you say? Indeed, there is something to be said about that. At one time, it was the consensus opinion the earth was flat and the sun revolved around the earth. Anyone who rejected that dogma had to make an appearance before the Inquisition. Que pasa, amigos Armenos? Whatever happened to that consensus opinion?

But perhaps that's too far back in history to suit the memories of those flimflam artists who shill for, and profit from, the deep pockets of the far-flung hate merchants of the Armenian lobby and the lucrative cottage industry that is known as the "Armenian genocide". For a more recent example of a debunked "consensus opinion," we only need to go back 8 or 9 years. Surely, the attention span of the honorable French lawmakers and their Armenian paymasters is long enough to cover our own era.

Does the phrase "weapons of mass destruction" ring a bell? Sacre bleu, mes amis Armeniens? Where are Saddam's WMD? They are nowhere to be found. Did he eat them? How do you say "The Big Lie" in French?

Saddam's possession of WMD was the "consensus opinion" according to the warmongering, duplicitous neo-cons who wove webs around the head of the imbecile George Dubya Bush, leading the U.S. into the monumental fiasco of invading Iraq.

What say the consensus opinion today about Iraq's possession of WMDs?

As anyone with a semblance of fairness and common sense can see, "consensus opinion" can be arrived at by deceit, manipulation and machination. And no one, but no one, has more experience with deception,manipulation, machination and Machiavellian cunning than do the slicks of the Armenian lobby.




 
JH
There is no righteous side here. Innocents died at the hands of both Turk, Armenian, and Kurd. I think at the heart of the argument here, people are trying to reason what the "standads" of a genocide should be.

The systematic murder of innocents whether intentional or unintentional as a matter of convenience or necessity is merely a facade to conceal man's true brutality.
 
Steve S
I hadn't thought at this late stage to find anything overwhelmingly positive in this French law because I feel it does nothing to enhance the understanding of the Armenian genocide, and does nothing to encourage its study in Turkey. However, thanks to Gwynne Dyer I now have. The prospect that this obnoxious person will now never travel to France is a good thing for France and all of Europe! I suggest we make sure his "may be liable to arrest" worry becomes an unambiguous "will be liable to arrest".
 
 
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