The problem with trade

People sit around the table , the Japanese , the Canadians , the Chinese, the Americans, the Euros, the British. They hammer out deals amongst themselves through hard negotiations , sign the papers and walk away with the best they can get. Then come the lawyers who rip the papers apart to find every loophole possible to skirt the initial foundation of the deal. They'll find a way to say Bombardier is not Canadian just as easily as they can find a way to say that Mcdonalds is Scottish. Is a duck still a duck if it's feet are chopped off? Is a car still a car if it's brought in in pieces. Is milk still milk if it's broken down into its components . Who collects the taxes if the server is in the Cayman Islands? What is untreated timber? I could go on, but there's not enough room. Gradually the exploitation of these loopholes decimates the intent of the original agreement, and what was considered fair at the outset becomes a sinkhole for one side or the other. I hate to paraphrase him, but Stalin said that nations can't trust one another to do the right thing , deals have to be looked at all the time and reset if necessary... because Governments change! That time for a reset has come for NAFTA , the WTO and other major trade agreements. Trump is taking the proper stance in my view!

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Right

Jun 18, 2018 at 10:40pm

It’s the lawyers’ fault again. Here they come again to fuck up the wonderful arrangements made by the politicians. And of course the lawyers are not hired or paid by anyone, they are just rogue ninjas who come in the night and rape agreements.

Anonymous

Jun 19, 2018 at 2:06am

I guess the "liberals" hate Trump so much that they cannot possibly do anything but give this a thumbs down; but the poster makes a lot of sense.

Canadians of course, have never been particularly known for their savvy(postwar brain drain).

Move on

Jun 19, 2018 at 3:02am

Nothing lasts forever.
When a longtime friend and ally treats you the same as their enemies, it's over. Oh, it'll be dressed up real nice, and papered over with some warmfuzzies and wishful thinking, and dragged out for a while, and spun in all kinds of positive ways (this is Canada, after all), but...
"Facts are facts and will not disappear on account of your likes." - Jawaharlal Nehru

When the tariffs are roughly similar for Canada and China, the US is not your friend anymore.
All good things come to an end. Regardless of how this works out, take the hint and seek other options. Depending on one place for two thirds of Canadian exports was never a clever idea anyhow. Better to find out this way than through collapse, war, natural disaster or some other sudden crisis. Human stupidity and selfishness being neither sudden nor particularly a crisis. It's too normal and common for that.
Look elsewhere. I was doing so already, this is just useful validation of my thesis.

I usually charge for this sort of thing. Posting here saves me from having any more social impulses for the rest of the year. The term for that is "moral licensing."
Cheers, and good luck.

... Oh, one more thing.
Get a real army.
Mutual defense with your newly thrifty neighbor just became a thing of the past, but the Chinese are selling combat drones for peanuts. Call Norinco (among others), they'll hook you up. No salaries, pensions or PTSD, either. War in the New Millennium.

10 8Rating: +2

uh you, you said the T word

Jun 19, 2018 at 8:38am

Here come the downvotes!

It's pretty funny that when NAFTA came in, the progressives were very against it. I remember that everyone in my socialist collective newspaper were agreed that Canada needs to be self-sufficient, stop moving manufacturing jobs to countries with poor labour laws, and nationalize our resources.

10 8Rating: +2

To @right

Jun 19, 2018 at 6:15pm

Of course the lawyers are hired guns , it's all part of the game and that's what I was trying to highlight.
It's not the lawyers I was singling out, I was just trying to point out that trade relations with other nations need a mechanism for review and reset to make sure one side isn't screwing the other by unintended legal interpretations.

10 8Rating: +2

World Jeopardy

Jun 19, 2018 at 6:29pm

Show host:
The global mechanism by which trade agreements and arguments are reviewed, and conflicts reconciled, usually by a tribunal of experts agreed upon by all treaty parties, one of the tribunes often a lawyer.

Contestant:
What is... the WTO?

Dingdingdingdingding!
Show host:
Correct! You win this round of trade debates!

This world trade agreement originally brought to you by... the US.
Facts are such troublesome things.

8 8Rating: 0

Anonymous

Jun 19, 2018 at 11:03pm

Why should Canada bend to anything Trump asks of us? He’s ended up going against multiple counties at the same time! Canada is going against just 1. We just have to wait it out until the USA is totally fucked by all of the tariffs and comes crawling back to the negotiation table. Trump is an idiot and we should take advantage.

10 8Rating: +2

to @ Jeopardy

Jun 20, 2018 at 8:28am

The WTO doesn't work.. it has countries Like Afghanistan and Liberia casting votes:
Decision-making
The WTO describes itself as "a rules-based, member-driven organization—all decisions are made by the member governments, and the rules are the outcome of negotiations among members".[59] The WTO Agreement foresees votes where consensus cannot be reached, but the practice of consensus dominates the process of decision-making.[60]

Richard Harold Steinberg (2002) argues that although the WTO's consensus governance model provides law-based initial
bargaining, trading rounds close through power-based bargaining favouring Europe and the U.S., and may not lead to Pareto improvement.[61]

7 6Rating: +1

Most curious

Jun 21, 2018 at 6:44am

I see here an empty, unsupported assertion (WTO doesn't work) because... brown countries (Afghanistan, Liberia) shouldn't participate in world trade?
That only makes sense to me in a bigotty, Klannish way, because there is no other context that fits.
The more countries in the WTO, the better, thus why it's called the WORLD Trade Organization... The W doesn't stand for Whitey.
And the WTO doesn't deal with human rights. Obviously, whatever its original pretentions. Otherwise China wouldn't be in it, among many others.
Your cited material is not relevant to the historical effectiveness of the WTO in resolving trade conflicts, which has been surprisingly adequate.
I prefer something empirical, not conjecture that presupposes a theoretical (and unattainable) ideal.

Lastly, I have a list of people who would improve the world if they were to "softly and silently vanish away". My list has gotten much longer of late, but congratulations, you're now on it.

8 9Rating: -1

@ most curious

Jun 21, 2018 at 10:33am

Whoa!
You need professional help, how many terabytes is that list?

6 10Rating: -4

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