Is disagreeing on abortion a deal breaker?

Comments
Email Dan

I recently discovered that my boyfriend of seven months and I have opposing viewpoints on the whole “life begins at conception” issue. He’s not a crazy zealot, but he is strongly against abortion. And while he won’t go so far as to say abortion should be banned, he does believe in the whole “personhood” concept, i.e., that a fetus—from the moment of conception—is a person with the same rights as any other person. This shocked me, and I almost broke up with him. He says that disagreeing on issues is fine in a relationship, but I am not so sure. I find his position abhorrent, one that ignores hundreds of real-life factors, and it opens the door for a litany of laws regulating my body. He’s a sweet, loving guy and progressive in every other way. But I’m suddenly unsure about a relationship I viewed as totally solid just a few days ago. I’m not sure if this should be a deal breaker or if this is just a disagreement. Please advise.

> Love Is Finding Errors

Your boyfriend won’t go so far as to say abortion should be banned… or maybe he saw the shocked look on your face and realized that going so far as to say abortion should be banned to you would be a big mistake.

Here’s a good way to find out if your boyfriend is serious about not wanting to impose his personal beliefs on others or whether he’s an antichoice zealot: tell him you’re pregnant.

Some men blithely assume antichoice positions because “personhood” and other antichoice arguments appeal to them in the abstract, and, hey, it’s not like their bodies or their futures are on the line, right? Most antichoice-in-the-abstract men come to a very different conclusion about the importance of access to safe and legal abortion when an unplanned pregnancy impacts them directly.

So tell your boyfriend you’re pregnant. You can present it as a thought experiment if you prefer, LIFE, but I think you should flat-out lie to him. Then, once the news sinks in, ask him if he’s ready to provide financial support for a child and/or make regular, monthly child-support payments directly to you. Ask him if he’s ready for the responsibilities (and the grind) of full-time or even part-time parenting. Ask him if he knows you well enough—just seven short months into this relationship—to make the kind of lifetime commitment that scrambling your DNA together entails. Because even if you don’t get married, even if you don’t live together and raise this child together, you two will be stuck with each other for the rest of your lives if you have the baby.

I’m guessing his answers will be “no, no, and no” and he’ll offer to drive you to the nearest abortion clinic himself.

As for whether you should date someone who is antichoice, well, women have to be in control of their own bodies—and when and whether or not they reproduce—in order to be truly equal. I don’t think I could date someone who didn’t see me as his equal or who believed that the state should regulate my sexual or reproductive choices. So, yeah, this shit would be a deal breaker for me, LIFE, if I had a vagina.

Actually, this issue is a deal breaker for me, even though I don’t have a vagina. I wouldn’t date a gay dude who was antichoice. Any gay man who can’t see the connection between a woman’s right to have children when she chooses and his right to love and marry the person he chooses is an idiot. And I don’t date idiots.

If your hypothetical pregnancy doesn’t shock your boyfriend out of his idiocy, LIFE, you’ll have to ask yourself if you can continue dating this idiot.

And speaking of abortion…

Researchers at Washington University in St. Louis released the results of a massive study—more than 9,000 women participated—on the effects of making birth control more widely available. And how did they make birth control more widely available? They gave it away for free. And it turns out that making birth control available to women at no cost, which is what the president is trying to do, reduced the teen birthrate by more than 80 percent (from 34.3 births per 1,000 teens on average to 6.3 births per 1,000 for teens enrolled in the study), and it reduced the number of abortions by 62 to 78 percent (from 19.6 abortions per 1,000 women on average to 4.4 to 7.5 abortions per 1,000 women enrolled in the study).

A person can’t call himself pro-life and oppose access to birth control (or Obamacare!). If you do oppose access to birth control—or you oppose Obamacare because it expands access to birth control—you’re not really pro-life. You’re just antisex.


I found porn on my kid’s computer and I talked to him about being careful about spyware, the difference between actual intimacy and objectification, and that kind of thing. I don’t have a problem with a 15-year-old boy looking at porn—so long as he’s discreet and doesn’t do it to excess. But what my kid was looking at was standard stuff, i.e., garden-variety M/F porn and a touch of M/M porn. But a friend found a stash of really kinky violence-against-women stuff on her kid’s computer. I’m thinking a parent can’t let that go as easily. She’s about to confront her kid. I don’t think you can help her with what to say, since she’ll already have said something, but what would you have advised her to say?

> My Friend’s Kinky Son

You meet two kinds of people at kink events and in kink spaces: people who’ve always known they were kinky—people who were jerking off to kinky fantasies and/or porn long before they were 15—and people who got into kink after falling in love with someone who was kinky. Your friend’s son sounds like one of the former.

It’s important for your friend to bear in mind that her son, if he is indeed kinky, sought out kinky porn. Kinky porn didn’t make him kinky. And being shamed by his mother for his porn preferences—or his kinks—isn’t going to unmake his kinks.

That said, MFKS, your friend should talk with her son about the difference between porn and real sex—kinky or vanilla—and the difference between erotic power exchange and violence. She should also talk to him about safety and misogyny, and she should encourage him to be thoughtful about his sexuality. And, most importantly, MFKS, she should emphasize the importance of meaningful and informed consent.

Your friend’s son isn’t going to want to dialogue with his mom about his porn stash or his kinks, MFKS, so she should go in prepared to monologue at him.

Finally, there’s a chance that your friend’s son isn’t kinky and was just looking for the most appalling shit he could find on the Internet. Mom should acknowledge that as a possibility, and her son, even if he is kinky, is likely to seize on that excuse. If he does claim that he was just looking for shocking video clips, she should say: “I believe you. But there’s a small chance that you’re saying that because you think it’s what I want to hear. So I’m going to say everything I wanted to say about safety, misogyny, and consent just in case. And all of it applies to vanilla sex, too.”

 

Download the Savage Lovecast (my weekly podcast) at www.straight.com. Email: mail@savagelove.net. Follow me on Twitter at @fakedansavage.

Comments (23) Add New Comment
Jamie James
RE: abortion issue

Uhhh, Dan? You haven't heard of Roxanne Fernando, have you? That's the worst advice you've given to date.
4
5
Rating: -1
Sam Weerdo
Wow. I could never respect anyone who lied about being pregnant for any reason. Absolutely awful advice Dan.

It would have been easier just to say DTMFA.
10
9
Rating: +1
Rob Bowen
Counselling someone to lie to their partner, especially about an issue so profound as bringing a life into the world, is NOT constructive relationship advice. I would think that this would a perfect instance for DTMFA, instead of advising someone to engage in deceit and psycho-warfare. We love you Dan, but I think you stubbed your dink on this one...
5
4
Rating: +1
jonnny
LOVE the advice you gave regarding abortion.
4
5
Rating: -1
Bellartix76
Jamie, this has nothing to do with Roxanne Fernando. The situations aren`t even similar. But I bet you knew that, which is why you provided no commentary or link.

I think Dan`s advice was spot on. Everyone - especially men - can blithely say abortion is wrong until they need one. I agree. Call his bluff.
6
5
Rating: +1
jonnny
Stop freaking out people. He didnt say to lie long term about being pregnant. Just to say it, let it sink in to see the reaction, then come clean.

There are some real tight ass readers on here.
5
7
Rating: -2
buddhabitch
i think disagreeing on the abortion issue IS a deal breaker. drop the tricks and say it like it is... being anti-choice means oppressing the rights of women. and you can't date someone who fundamentally opposes your right to choose for yourself.
9
3
Rating: +6
Choice
Dan - that's PP advice to LIFE. The way to find out his beliefs is through an open discussion.

Acknowledging the life of a fetus is not the same as being antichoice.

The argument that a fetus is not 'life' in order to defend abortion is absurd. Of course a fetus is alive - this is a fact not opinion. It is an embryonic human with all the 'tools' needed to develop into a person.

But women's right to choose whether or not she carries that fetus to term is a perfectly acceptable liberty in a society as complex as ours and especially with an already excessive global population.

Making anything a deal breaker before fully understanding it is shallow and intolerant.
7
11
Rating: -4
Jamie James
RE: Bellartix76

I respectfully disagree that an act of misogyny that terminated a young woman's life because her partner's gender politics were in direct contradiction to hers, has little or nothing to do with telling a young woman that lying to her partner whose gender politics are in direct contradiction to hers, is an advisable course of action.

Unless you think sexism and misogyny are over now, that is very much a high-risk decision that I would never encourage a woman to make, as I believe she would be taking her life and putting it in his hands -- and I think if you knew what kinds of things people like him say to women in our streets, you might think twice about the threat level.
4
4
Rating: 0
R U Kiddingme
@Buddha

Being anti-choice is not on for me. It is basically saying that a person has a legal obligation to give direct life support to another human being (or fetus, if you want to split that hair), and if that is true, how long could it possibly be before it is mandatory by law to donate your blood, your 'spare' kidney, etc.

However, this view is perfectly compatible with thinking that a fetus is a person, or proto-person which amounts to the same thing IMO, and that abortion is an extremely regrettable and tragic event, albeit one that should be safe, regulated, and legal for those who wish to exercise their right not to be obliged to have someone piggyback on their organs for 40 weeks.
4
5
Rating: -1
From a woman
Try the flip-side - a man who gets upset with a woman for saying that while she's pro-choice, it's something that personally, she couldn't do.

Yep, the fireworks can fly over that one!
2
4
Rating: -2
Felixa Roz
I guess it is important for smart guys to understand that ultimately if a woman is not supported by her partner in matters of principle, this sounds like he is not supporting HER (as a person) and that hurts. In a relationship this kind of mutual support is esential, so arguing just for the sake of it, will not lead to big results. I think the advice was great, men should face the music, rather than discuss "life".
3
5
Rating: -2
W
There are too many anti-women right wing nut jobs getting laid as it is so DTMFA is the best advise for LIFE. Thought experiment or no I agree there is a real risk of finding out just how much this "man" disrespects women. Also Dan could be wrong; he might want kids and be overjoyed at the news. That would not go well either.
4
2
Rating: +2
Becci
LIFE should just DTMFA. Why should she want to be with a guy who professes to be against abortion, even if he's really just one of those "The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion" types? (Google it.)
2
4
Rating: -2
steve wilson
what kind of parents allow their young children unsupervised access to porn on the computer? Dan, how about trying to protect our children from that harmful crap? Your advice is really pathetic
3
2
Rating: +1
Peter C
Dan, I real your column every week and I am sadly disappointed by your advice on the abortion issue.
You assume that most guys who are "pro-life" would want to go ahead and have an abortion if they became part of an unplanned pregnancy. That is really ignorant. Some people actually stick to their beliefs.
Is it really all the woman's choice of whether to go along with an unplanned pregnancy? Couples in this day and age can come to a mutual agreement in most occasions.
Your advise your readers to lie about being pregnant? I cant even...

3
4
Rating: -1
ClaraMz
Whoever thinks they can protect their 15 year old from online porn by restricting access is living in a fantasy world. My husband and I, coming from different countries and backgrounds, swapped stories of our first porn viewing - my older siblings and I would steal my Dad's playboys from my parents bedroom (which was an off-limits room to us, so we felt like we were breaking into a high security military outpost - which made it even more appealing.) I was 5. My husband, at the age of 9, would enjoy regular porn viewing parties at the home of one of his friends - on a, what were those called...VCR. These feats were accomplished by a 9 year old and a 5 year old (both from families with stable, middle class, fairly well-educated parents) back in the dark ages, before the dawn of the interwebs. Did you realize that currently, we not only have access to these interwebs on our computers, but also on our phones? On our phones!!! So, if you want to limit your teen's access to Internet porn, you'll have to make sure that they aren't friends with anyone who has a phone. They probably shouldn't sit near people in class who have phones either. I'd say Dan is going in the right direction re: talking to your children about things is really the only way to protect them. I'm sorry that we can't really keep our kids from looking at Internet porn, but ignoring reality isn't going to make things any better.
3
2
Rating: +1
Not pure Liberal, nor pure Conservative
Which is the bigger deal, disagreeing about abortion or lying about a pregnancy?
All I know is that if someone lied to me about being pregnant, I'd break up with them on the spot.
No offense, but this is one case where the pro-life guy is more liberal than you. He is willing to accept different points of views.
You're pretty much saying, "If you're not with us, you're against us."
Please don't recommend to couples that lying about pregnancy can ever be okay.
2
4
Rating: -2
steve wilson
well Clara, i think you've just proven my point. You veiw porn when when you were 5 years old... i can understand why you are messed up as a parent. Not to mention that playboys are not the same thing as the ultra-hardcore porn on the internet.
3
3
Rating: 0
Sam Weerdo
Steve, you clearly don't get it.

If you have pre-teen boys or teenage kids, and you think you're some kind of holy hot-shot parent because you keep them away from porn, I've got news for you: your kids are watching porn, and you're not aware of it.

Good luck denying that, as you can't possibly know for sure yourself.
3
2
Rating: +1

Pages

Add new comment
To prevent automated spam submissions leave this field empty.