Ben West's star is rising over East Vancouver

I attended this debate last night.
Both of them had valid points but both of them avoided very important questions.Phasing out is important, and so is investment in future alternative energies. Like both admitted, this will not happen over night.

I don't think West should have invited the other gentleman to speak. Since it was a one-on-one debate, in my view he should have acknowledged that he cannot speak for or on behalf Aboriginal people, and acknowledge that their view is left out of the conversation, but elaborate on his own understanding since this was a debate between himself and Levant, not a forum or a panel.

Levant is the equivalent of Ann Coulter. His racist rants were so disgusting.
Reacting to someone yelling out "environmental holocaust", he made this to be about Jew-bashing even though it wasn't that at all. It was a denial of Aboriginal people dying and the systemic practices that facilitate that.
But calling the man "a walking race card" and saying that "for the first time, Aboriginal people have real jobs and not handouts" was absolutely ridiculous. If he wanted to expose the corruption of the chief in question, it could have been done in a more intelligent way, rather than alluding to the idea of a dancing sellout Indian. (I thought we knew for centuries that the place where Europeans landed was not India, so why are we still using the term to refer to First Nations/Aboriginal/Indigenous people?)
This undermined the credibility of the arguments made by Levant.

The audience was rude on some occasions. I understand that most of us were in disagreement with Levant, but there is no need to shout while a person is speaking. You want a chance to speak and challenge him, invite him to a panel, and voice them.

I am also disappointed that no article has yet addressed the racism of the evening. Sure, both men have a sense of humour and that was as you put it "wildly entertaining". Ridiculing Aboriginal people in such a sensationalist way (or any way for that matter) is not entertaining, and it's unfortunate that it proved exactly what was said last night: the Aboriginal voice is ignored, ridiculed, and silenced.

This coverage also misses this point: http://thecanadian.org/k2/item/385-fight-night-at-the-rio-ethical-oil-vs...

and on Levant's Twitter:
RT @diamondisinger: big on-stage argument w @ezralevant & a self-declared Indian man who compared oil and aboriginals to the Holocaust.

Ben, I appreciate your open mindedness and willingness to bring this issue home and debate it. Thank you for that. I also thought it was interesting how Levant was an apparent human rights advocate but refused to address the very recent event in Parliament where our government decided that Canadian mining companies don't have to be held accountable. He kept pointing to Saudi Arabia and other "bad places".

Ben, consider this idea: http://www.ted.com/talks/bill_gates.html

Cheers!

It is fascinating that the Straight uses itself as a platform to promote a highly partisan point of view and faun over a professional activist that is suffering a serious deficiency of the facts. This writer, as the 'moderator' last night has done a wonderful disservice to impartial debate and reportage.

I have one question for Mr. West and the rest of his supporters: Given that there is only enough Lithium metal on the planet to manufacture approx. 20 million electric vehicles, and that those batteries must be replaced every ten years, how will we make the switch to electric vehicles? How is this possible? Even with nano-engineering advances that could halve the size of electric batteries, that would mean 40 million electric vehicles on the planet. Maximum. And only for 10 years. This has been the stone ceiling the electric car movement has known about since the 1960's. Responding by saying 'take transit, walk, bike' is ludicrous as we are talking about the entire planet here. We are talking about food distribution, as well as the goods that drive our economy. They have to get there somehow. Now you can say 'grow food in your organic community garden', and thats fine. But how many of you that actually do that meet your food needs for the entire year out of your organic garden?

I think a lot of the people that were there last night mean very well, but they should also understand that every event that Levant attends that is videotaped makes the hecklers and the environmental movement look like imbeciles. Know this: politicians and big business will always listen to the people who talk their language and act the way that they do. Its hardwired in to their thinking. The oilsands will NEVER be brought offline so long as oil sits at over $30/barrel. There is no way on God's earth that you will be able to stop an economic and industrial juggernaut of this scale. It is IMPOSSIBLE. And remember, legislators in the states will read Levant's book, which thanks to the mountains of free publicity you have provided him, is selling like hotcakes.

I'm sorry, but I fear the day West takes any political power. He claims we should "phase out gasoline like we did with DDT". He also doesn't believe in nuclear power. He also said that he was delighted in using an electric car.

So where are we going to get the power from? Vancouver is in a truly gifted position to be able to get a good, consistent source of hydro-electric power.

He fails to acknowledge that it is impossible to adequately provide services to people such as schools/hospitals/transportation without a true replacement for current energy sources.

He kept talking about "investing for a greener tomorrow". Mankind is making great progress with fusion and Canada is a leader in Nuclear reactor technology. Unfortunately all of our technology is for exportation. We have one of the lowest number of nuclear reactors in the world. Just 18. France has over 50, USA over 100. We created the CANDU reactors!!!

West was scared about the nuclear waste, but clearly hasn't seen the TEDTalk Bill Gates made about global climate change.

I loved how some lunatic screamed out "solar!" When Ezra asked "what else are you going to use TOMORROW, if you're not going to use gasoline?"

Solar, with current technology has NO IMPACT WHATSOEVER when it comes to providing energy needs for a city. This infinitesimally low benefit is made even smaller when you're applying this to very densely populated regions such as India and china.

What really perturbed me was the absolute lack of intelligent thought by the majority of the crowd that had no respect for Ezra and seemed to be West's drunk, hippie friends screaming out in the back.

If West would like to have any sort of political career, it would behoove him to distance himself from those ridiculously ignorant people and pick up a few books on the Avro Arrow, CANDU reactors, and any scientific journal talking about recent developments with nuclear power.

Or better yet, go take a tour of the Rolls-Royce plant that builds reactors. They're based in Canada.......I wonder why.....

Why hasn't anyone answered Robito's question about lithium limits? He's right you know, there isn't enough lithium metal for electric vehicles for all of California, let alone the world. And I think he's right when it comes to the oil patch that it truly is over bar the shouting. I don't think the 2.5 million Albertan's whose livelihoods depend on the oil patch are going to just roll over and let a few activist types from the coast dictate what they do. Keep in mind that the Wildrose Alliance is neck and neck with the Conservatives in the polls right now. Thats democracy. Thats Alberta.

Lithium carbonate today comes from dried salt lakes in South America and China. But Lithium can be extracted from salt water, it isn't going to run out. And Lithium certainly isn't the only potential battery technology. It is easily possible that new battery technologies will be based on other light metals. There's a vast array of possibilities that have barely been explored. Also, Lithium from used batteries can be recycled, unlike spent fuel.

Make the switch to electric, and watch the innovation roll in.

I attended the event; mainly out of curiosity as to how Levant could possibly defend the tar sands. Although I completely disagree with Levant, for a man defending the indefensible, I thought he handled himself extremely well; he was straightforward and courteous. I wish I could say the same about the crowd. I was utterly embarrassed by their conduct. The holocaust cat-calls from "Gitz Crazyboy" throughout the evening were nothing but disgusting Jew-baiting ....... and then you actually yielded the floor to the bully. If I want to see that sort of crap I'll watch Jerry Springer.

And...where will we get the energy to extract lithium carbonate from the seawater? Highly circular reasoning here. Please don't yell 'SOLAR' at me either. Plus...Lithium reserves are one thing, but extraction is another. Do you propose that we use coal fired power and oil to extract lithium to build electric cars? Personally, I'm all for nuclear in this case. Even Lovelock is pushing nuclear now, which is beyond surprising.

No Steven, it isn't circular logic. Lithium is not an energy source. It stores the energy, and can be recycled.

Since you asked me nicely, I will not yell "solar" at you.

Yes, Joe, Lithium is not an energy source but it requires a great deal of energy inputs to take it from in the ground and put it into a form which can store energy (battery).

Fortunately, this country has won the geological lottery and has been blessed with an abundance of rare earth metals, some of which can be used to manufacture batteries. We need to get these mines online because currently the Chinese have a near monopoly on these mines and they have blocked exports.

But you know what happens when we start mining in this country? People like Gitz Crazyboy and his poverty pimp chief show up and manufacture claims that these mining operations are causing cancer and extreme environmental degradation. He'll make sure his audience is, shall we say, the non tax paying type, so he will be met with thunderous applause.

Read the book "Energy Victory" by Robert Zubrin. It addresses all of these claims.

Everything about the debate has been said. The Q&A session was a debacle, and I think it was unfair to make Levant respond to anyone other than the moderator or Ben West.

That said, the vitriol and hatred with which Levant responded was unbelievable, not to mention completely unnecessary. It was evident he knew he'd overreacted (he snuck out the back door and literally ran down the alley in the rain while a few people, including his supporters, watched and called for him to come back to talk.)

For the record, "jew baiting" doesn't mean simply antagonizing a jewish person. It is much worse that that, and while it's anyone's choice to use it inappropriately, that person has no right to condemn someone who advocates that term "a holocaust" instead of "The Holocaust (tm)"
Jew baiter:: n. 1. Someone who hates and would persecute Jews; an anti-Semite. (Webster's)

As much as some people don't like the word holocaust to be used to mean genocide, which is what the aboriginal gentleman was doing, that's a matter of opinion and doesn't constitute anti-semitism. Keep your shit in context, and use your head to assess things before lashing out. That goes double for you, Ezra.